Question from foreigner about british roads

[Psamathe]

Raised above but I'll also recommend it https://cycle.travel- creates routes designed for cycling and takes into account traffic levels as well as road type, etc. (free, no registration necessary).

Ian

[Jdsk]

Do you advise using a mirror on the bike? In Holland only 'old' people use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain don't use mirrors.

Jonathan

[kylecycler]

Do you advise using a mirror on the bike? In Holland only 'old' people use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain don't use mirrors.

Jonathan

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should use a mirror.

[ossie]

Then you would be breaking the law and advocating doing so to the OP who is a visitor!
As stated above any roadside path,unless specifically signed,is for pedestrians only.

LOL

Glad you find it funny.
Next time you complain about a motorist breaking the law or being inconsiderate, I'll just LOL

I personally wouldn't hesitate to use a quiet rural pavement if it was on a fast road with blind bends, pot holes etc and have done numerous times when touring here and abroad. I would ride to the conditions, dismount if a pedestrian was ahead etc.

Guidance given to the Police over the years is to use discretion. This site (CTC) actually quotes the guidance given when FPN's were first issued for cycling on the pavement.

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief Police Officers who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required".

2014

Minister for Cycling Robert Goodwill has reiterated that the official line from the Department for Transport (DfT) is that cyclists may ride on the footway – more commonly referred to as pavements – provided they do so considerately, and that police officers need to exercise discretion.


I've no idea what the latest 'guidance' is but if you're sensible and the conditions are appropriate you really shouldn't have a problem.

[thirdcrank]

To be thread to needle, that wasn't advice to the police at all, but after David Blunkett had resuscitated the moribund Highways Act offence by making it enforceable by fixed penalties and making it at that time the only enforcement power of his newly-created PCSOs, his gopher Paul Boateng came out with those weasel words in answer to a parliamentary question by Ben Bradshaw (?) who lacked the wit to challenge what he was saying.

[mjr]

Do you advise using a mirror on the bike? In Holland only 'old' people use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain don't use mirrors.

Jonathan

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should look behind instead. If they can't or won't, then a mirror may be good, else...

[ossie]

To be thread to needle, that wasn't advice to the police at all, but after David Blunkett had resuscitated the moribund Highways Act offence by making it enforceable by fixed penalties and making it at that time the only enforcement power of his newly-created PCSOs, his gopher Paul Boateng came out with those weasel words in answer to a parliamentary question by Ben Bradshaw (?) who lacked the wit to challenge what he was saying.

Bloody hell your memory is better than mine We always used absolute discretion, it's not as is we actually needed telling our job anyway. My point is that in relation to the typical street view scene the OP posted I wouldn't see an issue if the circumstances were appropriate and warranted it.

[ossie]

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain don't use mirrors.

Jonathan

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should look behind instead. If they can't or won't, then a mirror may be good, else...

One issue I find abroad is looking over my left shoulder, it doesn't come as natural as looking over the right and I'm knocking on a bit as well, hence use a Zefal mirror when abroad.

[thirdcrank]

Bloody hell your memory is better than mine :wink: We always used absolute discretion, it's not as is we actually needed telling our job anyway. My point is that in relation to the typical street view scene the OP posted I wouldn't see an issue if the circumstances were appropriate and warranted it. (My emphasis.)

Yes. Discretion is fundamental to policing and during my career (1967 -1997) I'd say the entire police service exercised a collective discretion not to enforce this bit of the Highways Act. I'm reasonably confident I never received any training on it and totally confident I was never involved as reporting officer, supervisor or prosecutor in any enforcement. I could only explain this law after mugging up when I became a CTC CRN rep in retirement and there was a rush to convert footways to shared use. Blunkett's actions were not conducive to discretion at all, and Boateng should have been challenged in the context of the New Labour mantra "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" (and I know pavement cycling isn't a recordable "crime.")

[simonhill]

I'm not exactly recommending A roads, but I sometimes find they are better than some B roads. Some of the more important B roads have become main routes and carry lots of fast traffic (60mph). Likewise the A roads, but these are often a bit wider and better engineered - less bends, blind spots, etc.

I don't use a mirror in the UK, but do when touring abroad (left or right side of the road). I find it useful when riding with panniers for a quick glance to see what is behind. However, I always look over my shoulder before doing a manoeuvre........but then again, I am an old person.

[LittleGreyCat]

Great answers, thank you all. I have made a route using the online maps, there dont seem to be A roads or motorways in it.

Do you advise using a mirror on the bike? In Holland only 'old' people use a mirror.

Well, I probably qualify as an "old person" and I use mirrors.
As with driving a car, I find it usually more effective than looking over my shoulder, although I do double check anyway for example when changing lane or turning at a junction.
Lack of flexibility in my back doesn't help, of course.

Be warned, car drivers in the UK are a different breed to those in NL.
I cycled across from Hook of Holland to Germany a couple of years back and it took me a while to adjust to the courtesy and respect afforded to cyclists by car drivers.
The most dangerous thing is where you instinctively (from years of riding) expect the car to show you respect, give you space, and give way when you have right of way.
Assume the cars are driven by psychotics looking for an excuse to kill you, plus the totally oblivious, and your survival chances are much higher.
Be afraid.
Be very afraid.

Very few major roads have cycle tracks along side so avoid most A roads unless cycle.travel assures you there is a safe route.
Even then be cautious.

If you are over for a while you will soon adjust, but the first few days need extra care.
B roads are generally pretty good, and there are some beautiful parts of the country which are very good for cycling.

Oh, did I mention hills?
The only ones we found in the Netherlands were those up the edges of bridges going over rivers and major roads.

You should have a wonderful time.
Enjoy.

.

[Psamathe]

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain should look behind instead. If they can't or won't, then a mirror may be good, else...

One issue I find abroad is looking over my left shoulder, it doesn't come as natural as looking over the right and I'm knocking on a bit as well, hence use a Zefal mirror when abroad.

Bit off topic for OP's question but, whilst I do use a mirror (off-side), I have found my flexibility is far better looking behind to the right than to the left (i.e. I can turn far further/easier to right than to left). I have wondered if it is from cycling in UK where that movement/stretch is the far far more frequent.

With mirrors I use one (as well as looking behind) but I swap the side whilst waiting at ferry port (single Allen key). No idea if it's good practice but I tend to use the mirror for routine checks if anybody behind and I also look behind before pulling out or changing road position (generally).

Ian

[Psamathe]

I'm not exactly recommending A roads, but I sometimes find they are better than some B roads. Some of the more important B roads have become main routes and carry lots of fast traffic (60mph). Likewise the A roads, but these are often a bit wider and better engineered - less bends, blind spots, etc.
....

Quite a lot of B roads round my area are just 2 way except very tight with the HGVs (and there are a lot using them). They are fast and whilst they don't have that many sharp bends they do have a fair number of bends with high hedge/trees and no verge making poor visibility particularly for a car at 60 mph. And they are generally busy.

Ian

[Psamathe]

....
Be warned, car drivers in the UK are a different breed to those in NL.
I cycled across from Hook of Holland to Germany a couple of years back and it took me a while to adjust to the courtesy and respect afforded to cyclists by car drivers.
The most dangerous thing is where you instinctively (from years of riding) expect the car to show you respect, give you space, and give way when you have right of way.
Assume the cars are driven by psychotics looking for an excuse to kill you, plus the totally oblivious, and your survival chances are much higher.
Be afraid.
Be very afraid.

I was shocked several times cycling in NL when I stopped at lights (cycle lights red for me) - stopped to check GPS and route progress and cars would be stopping to let me across (despite lights telling me to stop them to go!). As you say UK drivers very different

Very few major roads have cycle tracks along side so avoid most A roads unless cycle.travel assures you there is a safe route.
Even then be cautious.

If you are over for a while you will soon adjust, but the first few days need extra care.
You should have a wonderful time.
...

Cycling in NL I found it took me a long time to remember about cyce lanes when creating a route. I'd be looking at Garmin's route on a map and "looks like a busy road there maybe I should alter the route to avoid ..." forgetting that I'd always be on a cycle lane NOT the busy looking road. Underway cycling never an issue, just when creating tomorrows route on computer.

But OP will have a great time. It's like a lot of travel where everybody warns you about theft, muggings, etc. - reality is it's a risk to be aware of but in being aware you are very unlikely to suffer. Same cycling in UK, be aware of differences but you'll still have a great time.

Ian

[m-gineering]

Do you advise using a mirror on the bike? In Holland only 'old' people use a mirror.

The vast majority of cyclists in Britain don't use mirrors.

Jonathan

In NL only old people have mirrors fitted, but they can be switched off like their hearing aids.!

On a touring rig a smal mirror (on the helmet or bars) is pretty handy to scan for trailers, caravans and other surprises.

In the UK 4 digit B-roads are usually fine, as long as you're beyond the commuting distance to London etc. But as always and everywhere, be prepared to change the route on the spot when the road doesn't feel right.