Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

ATA Carnet

Post by st599_uk »

Looking at the new deal and the EU's list of import rules, I'm assuming many touring bicycles would be above the 430 Euro limit and appear on the ATA Carnet list.

Does anyone know whether a Carnet will be required? I use them for work all the time and would prefer to avoid the pain.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
Jdsk
Posts: 24630
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: ATA Carnet

Post by Jdsk »

In case anyone doesn't know:

"Take goods temporarily out of the UK":
https://www.gov.uk/taking-goods-out-uk-temporarily/get-an-ata-carnet

Happy Christmas

Jonathan
ejbryson
Posts: 1
Joined: 27 Dec 2020, 10:56am

Re: ATA Carnet

Post by ejbryson »

I think you worry too much as if you consider what else you may have with you going over to the EU eg car, mobile phone, tent, camera, etc all which will be over £430. If you enter other countries in the world they have similar imprt rules but I bet nobody ever declares their Iphone.
mongoose
Posts: 39
Joined: 5 May 2017, 9:45pm

Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by mongoose »

Ten of our cycling group had planned a tour for 2020 starting in Strasbourg and looping around the Alsace wine Route and through the Black Forest. Because of covid this was not possible but we are now intending to reschedule this trip for June 2022.

Our intention was four of us to take the ten bikes to the start point in Strasbourg in two cars whilst the rest of the group travel by plane and train. This means that there will be six unaccompanied bikes in the cars [some are e-bikes].

There was an article in today's Independent on Sunday where someone was charged €400 import duty and VAT on taking three e-bikes into Spain on the ferry for a holiday and bringing the bikes back with him on the return. The customs officers said he could have had an ATA Carnet to avoid import charges. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Having done a bit of research, British Cycling advise obtaining a carnet to take bikes to Europe - presumably aimed at cycling teams rather than individual touring cyclists. The ATA Carnet costs £300 + VAT plus either a non-refundable insurance premium or a security deposit based on the cost of the "goods" being temporarily imported [40% of the value has been indicated]. Similar advice has been given by Motorsport UK and the ACU. It may be that a carnet is only required where the car, motorbike, bike or whatever is not accompanied by the owner who has proof of ownership or it could just be e-bikes as they are treated as motorised vehicles under the customs rules.

For our trip it may be that those not going by car have to hire bikes at the destination or everyone goes by car.
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by st599_uk »

mongoose wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 7:55pm There was an article in today's Independent on Sunday where someone was charged €400 import duty and VAT on taking three e-bikes into Spain on the ferry for a holiday and bringing the bikes back with him on the return. The customs officers said he could have had an ATA Carnet to avoid import charges. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Having done a bit of research, British Cycling advise obtaining a carnet to take bikes to Europe - presumably aimed at cycling teams rather than individual touring cyclists. The ATA Carnet costs £300 + VAT plus either a non-refundable insurance premium or a security deposit based on the cost of the "goods" being temporarily imported [40% of the value has been indicated]. Similar advice has been given by Motorsport UK and the ACU. It may be that a carnet is only required where the car, motorbike, bike or whatever is not accompanied by the owner who has proof of ownership or it could just be e-bikes as they are treated as motorised vehicles under the customs rules.
I use ATA Carnets for work a lot - I hope they're not needed as they're painful, you need to prepare a list of every part listing their Serial Number, Description, Location of Manufacture, Purchase Price, Current Value etc. To release the bond, you return the Carnet stamped at Customs for:
  • UK export
  • EU import
  • EU re-export
  • UK re-import
(expect each stamp to take up to a couple of hours to get - they'll ask to see specific items from your list)

German Customs have some notes on allowances (the rules are harmonised across the Customs Union): https://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individu ... _node.html

It may be worth adding your query to viewtopic.php?f=16&t=148050 and mailing them.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
mongoose
Posts: 39
Joined: 5 May 2017, 9:45pm

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by mongoose »

Thanks - I have posted to the topic you suggested and good to see we should have guidance in Cycle soon.

I had emailed CyclingUK before posting about this anyway.

I see gov.uk suggests and alternative to a carnet that is free to use - Duplicate List - do you have any experience of this as it seems more geared to re-import to the UK than outgoing export?
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by mjr »

MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by st599_uk »

Unfortunately those replies are incorrect, from Finnish Customs notes on Temporary Import: "Observe that bicycles and electrically assisted bikes are not means of transport."
You can't use the Temporary Import rules to import a bike.

A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by st599_uk »

mongoose wrote:Thanks - I have posted to the topic you suggested and good to see we should have guidance in Cycle soon.

I had emailed CyclingUK before posting about this anyway.

I see gov.uk suggests and alternative to a carnet that is free to use - Duplicate List - do you have any experience of this as it seems more geared to re-import to the UK than outgoing export?
A duplicate list is limited in use. I'd have to ask our shippers as to what it can be used for.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by mjr »

st599_uk wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 8:13am
Unfortunately those replies are incorrect, from Finnish Customs notes on Temporary Import: "Observe that bicycles and electrically assisted bikes are not means of transport."
You can't use the Temporary Import rules to import a bike.
Do you have any idea what the basis is for that counterintuitive decision? Or under what basis cycle tourists ride across borders without importing their bikes?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by st599_uk »

mjr wrote:
st599_uk wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 8:13am
Unfortunately those replies are incorrect, from Finnish Customs notes on Temporary Import: "Observe that bicycles and electrically assisted bikes are not means of transport."
You can't use the Temporary Import rules to import a bike.
Do you have any idea what the basis is for that counterintuitive decision? Or under what basis cycle tourists ride across borders without importing their bikes?
No idea, sorry. There is a temporary admission for sporting goods and personal effects. British Cycling suggest you need a Carnet to enter with a bike, hopefully CTC can ask the government and the EU and find out how this can be done more easily.

It's designed to prevent import and sale, so presumably they want the Carnet as a guarantee of lost import duty and VAT, but that's a bit OTT.

Personally I think the personal allowance is too low, it hasn't changed in years. But that's where we are.

A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by mjr »

st599_uk wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 9:44am
mjr wrote:
st599_uk wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 8:13am Unfortunately those replies are incorrect, from Finnish Customs notes on Temporary Import: "Observe that bicycles and electrically assisted bikes are not means of transport."
You can't use the Temporary Import rules to import a bike.
Do you have any idea what the basis is for that counterintuitive decision? Or under what basis cycle tourists ride across borders without importing their bikes?
No idea, sorry. British Cycling suggest you need a Carnet to enter with a bike, hopefully CTC can ask the government and the EU and find out how.

Personally I think the personal allowance is too low, it hasn't changed in years. But that's where we are.
Well, I think I'll just avoid Finland for now. I didn't see any exclusion on cycles in the EC delegated decision they cited.

Is that about carnets from British Cyclops's Brexit FAQ? That seems to be for racing teams, with a staffer driving in a truck of bikes.

I think the personal allowance is still something low like €300 which might cover the resale value of an older touring bike but not all your kit.

Yes, we are where we are but things may move on. The motorcycle tourist organisations seem to be lobbying about this too. While their bikes are definitely registered road transport, some of them carry pricey kit.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
st599_uk
Posts: 1092
Joined: 4 Nov 2018, 8:59pm

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by st599_uk »

Hopefully CTC can lobby too and get advice.

The current British Cycling advice to use a Carnet wouldn't suit everybody - for many, the import duty would be less than the Carnet price.
A novice learning...
“the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.”
simonhill
Posts: 5226
Joined: 13 Jan 2007, 11:28am
Location: Essex

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by simonhill »

Do we know the full circumstances of the guy with 3 electric bikes in his van.

This is what Simon Calder said in an email feed to me:

"Question: On arrival by ferry at Santander from Portsmouth, my van was checked over by customs officer and I was charged over €400 in duty for three used electric bikes that I planned to bring back after a two-week visit. The staff muttered something about “carnets”. Was I correctly fined?"

Simon says it's correct and talks about carnet, etc.

But...3 electric bikes in a van - were riders with them? Could look a bit like an import. Doesn't help the 2nd OP (mongoose) but is relevant to cycle tourists.

Just to add took my bike to Portugal 6 weeks ago and customs didn't show any interest.

Edit: Just remembered that I met a couple from Devon yesterday. They took ferry to Santander and drive down to Portugal. They had 2 bikes, one a high end carbon job. Short term tourists, driving rather than flying cos of COVID. They didn't mention any problems.

It would be really ironic if with all the global warming initiatives bikes were banned. Lots of red faces. I'm up for a port blockade.

Also, maybe bikes not counted in the exempted travel class because they have no registration so can easily be sold unlike car, coach, etc.
Thehairs1970
Posts: 603
Joined: 11 Aug 2018, 9:30am

Re: Taking bikes on a tour to Europe by car

Post by Thehairs1970 »

I’m late to the party here but are we saying that taking a bike to an EU country needs a carnet that costs £300? Netherlands too? We are planning a mini break and tour there in April.
Post Reply