Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
keyhavenpotterer
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by keyhavenpotterer »

willem jongman wrote:I am sure it is a great bike. However, with short reach brakes that allow 28 mm tyres at best it is not really a tourer, not even a fast one.
Willem


Interesting and lively response to my post! I was just trying to point out that there are some very nice fast audax/light tourers around for the price stated, if the spec concentrated on a great bike rather than the gears and brakes alone. No one seems to be coming up with the actual spec bike as asked for in the first place.

Happy to accept criticism of wheels and tyres Willem, but the "not even fast" seems a bit unfair - seems pretty fast to me and cannot split the difference with the mid 90's Merlin I owned for a while, apart from the carbon forks are much more compliant and comfortable than the Japanese alloy forks the Merlin used. Both seem to move forward with amazing ease when I press the pedals. I had never known anything like it before I rode the Merlin - the September is just the same.

For me, the combination of this responsiveness, as MickF finds in his bike, added to the comfortable position which reminds me so much of my Galaxy, gives me the best of both worlds, something pretty hard to find. It does have rack mounts and 10kg is not a lot to carry, when I already weigh 90kg. I have a Roberts Roughstuff frame standing by for lugging full loads if needed.

Brian
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Si
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by Si »

but putting mudgaurds on a racer doesn't make them tourers.


but surely successfully touring on them, a la Mick's meanderings, does make the tourers?
willem jongman
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by willem jongman »

Sorry if I wasn't clear - English is not my native language. Of course it is a fast bike. But I do not think it qualifies as a tourer, not even a fast one, with the emphasis on tourer rather than fast.
Willem
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Si
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by Si »

I spose it boils down to the differences between what things are labeled and what they actually do. Once upon a time most people just had bikes. These bikes could be put to a multitude of uses. Now it seems that you have to have a specialist bike for each particular use that you might want to do. Of course, some bikes are better suited to some things, however, a lot comes down to the rider....going back to the example of Mick - he's done LEJOG faster than me, and on a bike that was probably a lot less like what you'd call a tourer than mine, but he probably found it more comfortable than I did. His bike was better suited to him, mine to me.

All I'm really saying is that we shouldn't get hung up on labels and believe that a bike isn't suited to a particular purpose just because of what was written on the wrapper (remember - the bike trade benefits nicely if we believe that we need a different bike for each use, e.g. a tourer, a commuter, a racer, an audaxer, etc). It's not about any particular measurement, or what might be written on the down tube, it's about how the bike works for you.
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hubgearfreak
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by hubgearfreak »

Si wrote: surely successfully touring on them, a la Mick's meanderings, does make the tourers?


if someone went from norwich to the coast and back on a DL1, if someone did C2C on a unicycle, if someone lejogs on a chopper, do they all then become touring bikes?

me and friends had races on our mum's basket equipped 3 speeds, raleigh twentys et al, but they've not become racing bikes

you can tour on any bike. even racers with mudgurds
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Si
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by Si »

As I said, labels vs uses. I prefer to define my bikes by uses. Others may not...it's a free country.
glueman
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by glueman »

I like fast bikes, I even used to commute on tubs but guards alone do not a tourer make. We all draw the line at a different place but a tourer, even a lightweight one would need:

Sufficiently low gears to climb hills
Sufficiently wide tyres to ride unmade roads and bridleways as the mood took me
The capacity to carry waterproofs, spare/warm clothing, food, tools, map, camera, etc.
Lighting, so I didn't have to rush home at dusk
Mudguards
Servicable wheels and transmission

Maybe not sub 20 lbs but easily sub 30 lbs. My bikes that fit the bill range from 23-28 lbs complete, minus luggage.
markenduro
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by markenduro »

One of these should fit the bill:
Image

It's a 2007 kona sutra. Early models had sliding dropouts which would mean no ugly chain tensioners with hub gears, room for 37mm tyres with guards (i run 32mm), disc mounts, lovely geometry, can fit racks and mudguards and is more than capable of going lots of places you shouldn't on a drop barred bike. Down side is that it is slightly heavy. Have done a couple of CTCs, Berwick to Derby, toured Ireland and most of the UK, commute daily on it and love it.

Never had any issues with the discs (avid BB7 road version) and not too sure why there are so many luddites out there when it comes to discs, I would not want to go back to rim brakes on any bike now as I quite like predicatable braking in all conditions.
They come up on ebay occasionally, I think most people hang on to them though. If you were prepared to go second hand you could do the full rohloff route on one of these for less than £1500.

I have an alfine 8speed on my 29er mtb and that has been faultless, although the range would not be sufficient for touring with a single front ring, one option could be to run a chain tensioner and a couple of front rings and a mech.
Tako
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by Tako »

Been following this thread with great interest as this is exactly the criteria for my off-road tourer. Waiting for Shimano 11spd hubgear and whatever Kona or Surly will offer. Did you spec build the Kona Sutra or off-the-peg?
keyhavenpotterer
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by keyhavenpotterer »

willem jongman wrote:25 mm tyres are likely to be an optimistic maximum on this bike.

One last thing that makes this particular bike unsuitable for real touring are the wheels: 18 and 24 spokes are an unnecessary risk.
Do not misunderstand me: I think this is a nice bike, as a comfy road bike, but not as a tourer. Even for a competitive audax bike I would prefer clearance for wider tyres (and more reliable wheels).
Willem


Hi Willem, only just realised the picture I posted from the Spa website is not the same spec wheels as my September. It does say for illustration only. My bike has Ultegra 32 spoke hubs so at least we are on the same wavelength there. From the Sabbath site 25c are the spec tyres, so not quite agreed there.

Their site also lists the Silk Route as a more touring bike than the Audax September

http://www.sabbathbicycles.co.uk/bikes/silk_route

Brian
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Mick F
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by Mick F »

Seeing as we can't agree on "Fast Tourer" and what a touring bike should be or not be, what about a "Slow Tourer"?
This takes the argument to the other extreme in the hope of proving a point.

I'm going to be "touring" on a Raleigh Chopper. It will be slow.

As I'm kitting it out with wide ratio gears, panniers and trailer, uprated brakes and comfortable handle grips, is it now a tourer? It already has laid back geometry, a comfy saddle and wide tyres.

:wink:
Mick F. Cornwall
workhard

Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by workhard »

Slow Tourer, for me, equate to any bike at all I can bear to ride for six hours whilst carrying a bit of luggage on the bike. Alternatively any bike used by a 'tourist', someone engaged in the act of touring which to me is riding for the pleasure of it, journey as important as destination, and not sleeping in your own bed at night..

So (slow) tourer = comfy bike which can carry stuff. So an MTB/ATB? Yep. A Brompton? Yep. Old Raleigh 10 speed? Yep.

Whilst you can race Bromptons, for instance in a Brompton World Championship, you wouldn't choose to race one in an open event and hope to remain competitive so a racer one is not.

YMMV
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al_yrpal
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Re: Drop barred, disc equiped, rohloff fast tourer.does it exist

Post by al_yrpal »

workhard wrote:Slow Tourer, for me, equate to any bike at all I can bear to ride for six hours whilst carrying a bit of luggage
YMMV


Spot on! If its a choice between enjoying the cycling, scenery and the surroundings, and pelting along to an impressive distant destination, my votes for the former

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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