Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

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Fasgadh
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby Fasgadh » 1 Feb 2012, 8:00pm

The northernmost grassy bit seems to still be canon.

Coast path south of Spittal
Image

© Copyright Richard Webb and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

National Cycle Network - route 1
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© Copyright Richard Webb and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

National Cycle Network - route 1
Image

© Copyright Richard Webb and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

New maps have the route going inland on yellow roads missing out this bit
Goswick Links
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© Copyright Richard Webb and
licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.


I enjoyed it, fine on 32mm tyres but lighly laden (day ride).

jaz
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby jaz » 1 Feb 2012, 8:43pm

Thanks - I'll bear it in mind!

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monxton
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby monxton » 20 May 2013, 10:04pm

Cunobelin wrote:The National Byway was sponsored by Hovis originally as an alternative to the NCN

It never took off in the same way and they stopped printing and publishing maps. They are very like Sustrans. I did the Chester - Cirencester route and the Winchester and Shaftesbury loops and they were fine.


Do you have a GPX track of the Winchester loop? I've been cycling round the Cheriton / Kilmeston / Hinton Ampner area noticing the National Byway loop signs but there's not quite enough to work out where it is meant to go, and the trail keeps going cold.

(The reason I ask is I'd like to add it to the OpenCycleMap.)

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 21 May 2013, 10:38am

Monxton - how about this? It's even plotted on OS StreetView, which is part of OS OpenData and therefore compatible with OSM...
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides

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monxton
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby monxton » 21 May 2013, 9:51pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Monxton - how about this? It's even plotted on OS StreetView, which is part of OS OpenData and therefore compatible with OSM...

Richard, you are a hero! Thanks.

That does match what I found on the ground, though it doesn't really explain what they are trying to achieve. It's indeed the case that, approaching from the north, the only standard (non-loop) byway signs are 1, 2, 16, and 17, so the byway itself comes to a halt in Cheriton village.

I thought they always signed the loops in one direction only, usually anticlockwise to reduce the number of right turns. However the signs at 10 and 11 are pointing north (anticlockwise), while the one at 14 is pointing east (clockwise). I suppose it is 90 deg out of alignment. I did not find a sign at 13, or at 9. Hmm.

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 22 May 2013, 7:30am

No problem. I like seeing more of the National Byway added to OSM - it's pretty much the only place anyone can find out about it (unless you happen to catch the right issue of Cycling Active). I understand there's a bit of fresh signposting in north-west Gloucestershire, too. Must put my bike on the train and go and investigate...
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The Mechanic
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby The Mechanic » 22 May 2013, 9:07am

vjosullivan wrote:
Now if the CTC would stop wittering about charitable status and such and do something useful...

Who do you think the CTC is, if it isn't you?


I'm afraid that, if you think CTC is "you" then you are very much deluded. This is doubly so since they converted to a charity. The obsession with being a charity is manifest in their changing the byline to "The National Cycling Charity". I don't know what was wrong with being an "organisation". Charitable status should not necessarily change what you are, but it seems to have done in the CTC case. Sad.
Cancer changes your outlook on life. Change yours before it changes you.

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foxyrider
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby foxyrider » 23 May 2013, 12:50pm

Back to the original question - maybe its time someone in the UK got around to producing something like the Esterbauer Bikeline maps and guides (for example, i know there are several other publishers doing similar stuff), they sell millions of them. They have more than just the route that an 'app' will give but information about points of interest, accomodation, bike shops and detailed information on surfaces etc. Not only that but I for one prefer something to read rather than peer at a tiny screen with limited information.

I'm sure if the Europeans can do it we can, its an industry on its own! So - anyone in publishing? I'll volunteer for some route riding! :D
Convention? what's that then?
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monxton
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby monxton » 27 May 2013, 11:13am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:No problem. I like seeing more of the National Byway added to OSM - it's pretty much the only place anyone can find out about it (unless you happen to catch the right issue of Cycling Active). I understand there's a bit of fresh signposting in north-west Gloucestershire, too. Must put my bike on the train and go and investigate...

Here it is: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2947208. I passed the two southernmost junctions yesterday, and the sign labelled 8 on your map was either erected wrong or had subsequently been turned through 90 deg, so instead of pointing you to the north-east, it was sending you backwards along the loop the way you came. I turned it round - feel like a guerilla cyclist now. I'll check the others next time I'm there; I know for certain that number 14 is wrong.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby Cunobelin » 27 May 2013, 12:08pm

monxton wrote:
Richard Fairhurst wrote:Monxton - how about this? It's even plotted on OS StreetView, which is part of OS OpenData and therefore compatible with OSM...

Richard, you are a hero! Thanks.

That does match what I found on the ground, though it doesn't really explain what they are trying to achieve. It's indeed the case that, approaching from the north, the only standard (non-loop) byway signs are 1, 2, 16, and 17, so the byway itself comes to a halt in Cheriton village.

I thought they always signed the loops in one direction only, usually anticlockwise to reduce the number of right turns. However the signs at 10 and 11 are pointing north (anticlockwise), while the one at 14 is pointing east (clockwise). I suppose it is 90 deg out of alignment. I did not find a sign at 13, or at 9. Hmm.


Do NOT stop at Cheriton, especially do NOT stop here:

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...and if you do ignore my sage advice, stay well away from these evil concoctions

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CJ
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby CJ » 28 May 2013, 12:46pm

foxyrider wrote:Back to the original question - maybe its time someone in the UK got around to producing something like the Esterbauer Bikeline maps and guides (for example, i know there are several other publishers doing similar stuff), they sell millions of them. They have more than just the route that an 'app' will give but information about points of interest, accomodation, bike shops and detailed information on surfaces etc. Not only that but I for one prefer something to read rather than peer at a tiny screen with limited information.

I'm sure if the Europeans can do it we can, its an industry on its own! So - anyone in publishing? I'll volunteer for some route riding! :D

I don't think we have the numbers. The average German cycles 5 times as much as the average Brit, one in three of them cycles on holiday, and their high-quality river valley routes attract millions of cycling visitors every year. I think we've got a long way to go in making Britain an attractive place to cycle and improving the quality of our routes, before it'll be commercially viable to publish guidebooks as detailed as the Bikeline series.
Chris Juden
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Kaptain Kreman
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby Kaptain Kreman » 28 May 2013, 7:35pm

I picked up the Byeways map for the East Midlands about a month ago from the counter of the Oakham Museum after noticing many brown signs on local small roads.

It was only a couple of quid (v cheap for such a big area) and they had about 6 more on display (presumably still there if anyone wants one).

I thought that I would get the rest of the set online but hadn't got around to it and it seems from this thread that I probably wont be able to :-(

The routes seem to be just what I want - minor, less trafficked roads linking together into long distance routes with the bonus of brown signage at those junctions not vandalised or missing - not too much of a problem here in Rutland.

I have given up with Sustrans completely. The routes seem fine if you are on a mountain bike but I ride a recumbent trike most of the time and find that the off-road surfaces and multitude of obstructions to "stop use by motorbikes etc" make them completely unusable for people with machines like mine (or trailers or big panniers or tandems etc etc). The only people not inconvenienced seem to be youfs on (stolen?) mopeds, scooters etc who make other entrances / exits through hedges etc and hoon about on Sustrans routes in dodgy built-up areas.

Anyone else know sources for other maps in the series (other than the previously mentioned "Hut")?

Chris Chapman (aka Kaptain Kreman)

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monxton
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby monxton » 28 May 2013, 8:29pm

Kaptain Kreman wrote:The routes seem to be just what I want - minor, less trafficked roads linking together into long distance routes with the bonus of brown signage at those junctions not vandalised or missing - not too much of a problem here in Rutland.

The National Byway also has a tendency to suddenly go off up tracks which are not suitable for road bikes. The loop we're discussing here does it to visit the Cheriton battlefield: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.05 ... 5&layers=C. Another place I know where the National Byway disappears up a track in horrible condition is at Old Sarum: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.09 ... 5&layers=C.

I agree with your point though, you do have to understand which kind of Sustrans route you are dealing with. It might be a useful cross-country route, an impassable track or a "safe route to school" type, all pavement-riding and stop-start junctions, and I'm only interested in the first kind. Sustrans do great work, and their tenacity dealing with planning departments is very impressive.
Kaptain Kreman wrote:Anyone else know sources for other maps in the series (other than the previously mentioned "Hut")?

The ones which are in print you can buy directly from the National Byway shop: http://www.thenationalbyway.org/maps_sale.asp

Kaptain Kreman
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby Kaptain Kreman » 28 May 2013, 9:29pm

Hi

Tried to order any maps still in print from their online shop while I remembered it.

Ticked all the boxes and went through the ordering procedure including verification by Barclaycard, it said transaction processed Ok then said transaction declined by authorisation agent!

I shall wait and see if anything comes through the post but I think it declined because they have nothing left to sell - website copyright seems to be ->2011 so 2 years with no updating?

I shall keep my eyes out at 2nd hand bookshops etc :-)

Chris

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monxton
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Re: Is there an alternative to Sustrans?

Postby monxton » 29 May 2013, 12:21am

Kaptain Kreman wrote:Hi

Tried to order any maps still in print from their online shop while I remembered it.

Ticked all the boxes and went through the ordering procedure including verification by Barclaycard, it said transaction processed Ok then said transaction declined by authorisation agent!

I shall wait and see if anything comes through the post but I think it declined because they have nothing left to sell - website copyright seems to be ->2011 so 2 years with no updating?

I shall keep my eyes out at 2nd hand bookshops etc :-)

Chris


I see. Well they stilll have some of them in the Sustrans shop: http://www.sustransshop.co.uk/by/catego ... onal-byway

And a different subset at Stanfords: http://www.stanfords.co.uk/Home/Great-B ... 000881.htm