Calais to Alps - daily mileage question
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krossbar
Calais to Alps - daily mileage question
This summer I'm cycling from Calais to the Swiss Alps, however I've never done anything like this before and am really not sure what daily mileage I can expect to do, at least on the flatter French bits. I will be camping (I think?) with at least rear panniers. Would 60 to 70 miles a day be respectable, or am I kidding myself? Many thanks
krossbar: your post is the sort that triggers what is I think rapidly becoming a private joke between myself and thirdcrank as it follows the "I'm cycling to China" variety. Having said that, you are obviously a courageous cyclist and your question is very sensible. So here are my (very limited) views and no doubt others will oblige:
1. Most people on this MB seem to be able to manage 100 mpd before breakfast. I cannot. I think 60 mpd is a good maximum on reasonable terrain (eg France) taking into account rest breaks, a little sightseeing etc and time to just sit down and enjoy the scene. It should allow you to factor in the occasional repair.
2. Slash this rate in half if you are camping. The weight you carry on long hills and the time to find a site, set up and strike camp will seriously reduce your daily mileage and challenge you physically much more as well.
3. Decide what kind of trip it is - a head-down race against time or an enjoyable journey - both have their appeal but imply very different daily rates.
4. Assess how fit you are now. When you say you haven't done it before, do you mean the daily mileage, the season (high summer?), the country, camping with a bike or the distance (i.e. continued daily mileage) or the Alps. France has very long hills that can be mentally challenging. Getting used to a saddle on a trip will seriously affect your mileage!
5. Decide on your type of route - you can get to places quickly on RNs but you may not consider that very pleasant! This may also determine your type of bike as well.
6. Try to put one or more of these into practice before going or take one or more out of the equation:
Carrying overnight luggage
High daily mileage
High mileage for several days in a row (which is quite a different thing)
Camping with a bike and carrying all the gear
Cycling in high summer temperatures
The Alps
Cycling on your own abroad and coping with repairs etc
Cycling in low gears (i.e. fast pedalling) for long periods if carrying weight
Being totally comfortable on your bike, especially regards the saddle
7. You could also focus in on what you really want from the trip and take a train or Bike Express part way so that your bike and accommodation are best fitted to what you want to do.
Let us know what you think.
1. Most people on this MB seem to be able to manage 100 mpd before breakfast. I cannot. I think 60 mpd is a good maximum on reasonable terrain (eg France) taking into account rest breaks, a little sightseeing etc and time to just sit down and enjoy the scene. It should allow you to factor in the occasional repair.
2. Slash this rate in half if you are camping. The weight you carry on long hills and the time to find a site, set up and strike camp will seriously reduce your daily mileage and challenge you physically much more as well.
3. Decide what kind of trip it is - a head-down race against time or an enjoyable journey - both have their appeal but imply very different daily rates.
4. Assess how fit you are now. When you say you haven't done it before, do you mean the daily mileage, the season (high summer?), the country, camping with a bike or the distance (i.e. continued daily mileage) or the Alps. France has very long hills that can be mentally challenging. Getting used to a saddle on a trip will seriously affect your mileage!
5. Decide on your type of route - you can get to places quickly on RNs but you may not consider that very pleasant! This may also determine your type of bike as well.
6. Try to put one or more of these into practice before going or take one or more out of the equation:
Carrying overnight luggage
High daily mileage
High mileage for several days in a row (which is quite a different thing)
Camping with a bike and carrying all the gear
Cycling in high summer temperatures
The Alps
Cycling on your own abroad and coping with repairs etc
Cycling in low gears (i.e. fast pedalling) for long periods if carrying weight
Being totally comfortable on your bike, especially regards the saddle
7. You could also focus in on what you really want from the trip and take a train or Bike Express part way so that your bike and accommodation are best fitted to what you want to do.
Let us know what you think.
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speedsixdave
- Posts: 868
- Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
- Location: Ashbourne, UK
speedsixdave's rule for happy cycletouring: four hours on the bike, four hours off the bike makes for a good day. So that depends how fast you ride, but at a real average of about 10-12mph, that makes for about 40-50mpd.
Some will think that's a bit slack, and they're absolutely right. I like to get up late, have a leisurely breakfast somewhere, and spend a goodly part of the day sat outside a cafe having a beer or coffee and reading a book. And there's plenty of time for sightseeing and photography if you fancy that sort of thing.
Now if what you like doing is just riding, 60-70 mpd is very respectable. But for Coppi's sake, don't plan a ride where you have to ride 70mpd every day, because one day you will wake up in the rain with a stiff back and 70 miles will seem like a punishment. Which is not what you want, surely.
Start easy, allow yourself a good couple of weeks and accept that you'll want a rest day or two. Then just go, and ride only as far as you feel like each day. Carry a tent and then you can stop whereever you want, and treat yourself to a b&b every now and then.
Freedom and enjoyment must be your goals, because this is what cycle-touring does best. And remember that no matter how many miles you do in a day, no-one else will be impressed, because someone else will have been further, faster, in winter, on a unicycle, backwards. The only person who has to enjoy the trip is you.
Some will think that's a bit slack, and they're absolutely right. I like to get up late, have a leisurely breakfast somewhere, and spend a goodly part of the day sat outside a cafe having a beer or coffee and reading a book. And there's plenty of time for sightseeing and photography if you fancy that sort of thing.
Now if what you like doing is just riding, 60-70 mpd is very respectable. But for Coppi's sake, don't plan a ride where you have to ride 70mpd every day, because one day you will wake up in the rain with a stiff back and 70 miles will seem like a punishment. Which is not what you want, surely.
Start easy, allow yourself a good couple of weeks and accept that you'll want a rest day or two. Then just go, and ride only as far as you feel like each day. Carry a tent and then you can stop whereever you want, and treat yourself to a b&b every now and then.
Freedom and enjoyment must be your goals, because this is what cycle-touring does best. And remember that no matter how many miles you do in a day, no-one else will be impressed, because someone else will have been further, faster, in winter, on a unicycle, backwards. The only person who has to enjoy the trip is you.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
Two saddles best!
speedsixdave: that's well said. The trouble is that some people can tour and camp and get high distances (and enjoy the challenge) and reap the benefits of experience. Unfortunately this leads other people to think they can and must do the same. But it's amazing what can slow down a day, from aching muscles to stopping for a chat to a puncture. There's nothing like planning in some "down time", as you suggest.
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speedsixdave
- Posts: 868
- Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
- Location: Ashbourne, UK
Thanks, Horizon.
It's slightly off topic but I forgot to say that Youth Hostels are also good for touring. They're warm and dry and quite sociable, especially if you're travelling alone. Some of my best touring memories have been of sharing a bottle of wine or two with other travellers at a YH. Even if you speak little French there's often people there who speak English. It's certainly worth the smallish joining fee for the option to stay at one.
It's slightly off topic but I forgot to say that Youth Hostels are also good for touring. They're warm and dry and quite sociable, especially if you're travelling alone. Some of my best touring memories have been of sharing a bottle of wine or two with other travellers at a YH. Even if you speak little French there's often people there who speak English. It's certainly worth the smallish joining fee for the option to stay at one.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
Two saddles best!
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krossbar
Calais to Alps
Thanks all, that helps somewhat.. I'm 54 by the way - shame I didn't do this when I was younger. Just bought a Ridgeback Panorama for this outing. Good point about Youth Hostels as I am actually a member anyway but rarely use them these days. Been doing a lot of odd days out when I can between 25 band 60 miles loaded up a bit but getting time for a multi day dry run is a problem. I'm north kent so wherever I go south there's hills, and some are pretty grim coming back up north downs, so reckon that should be good training.
Cheers
Cheers
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Cyclefrance
- Posts: 77
- Joined: 8 Jan 2007, 8:37pm
- Location: Headley, near Epsom, Surrey
- Contact:
Saw this a bit late - as you're 54 and I'm 59 and have been touring the last 8 years I am guessing that my approach might suit you. I work on 10mph cycling speed time which includes the stops needed for map-reading and breathers and also allows for mixed cycling terrain.
How long you spend in the saddle is up to you - we tend to mix that quite a bit. Say if we are on a good stretch and have no known diversions then we will go for 60 miles, but if our toute takes in somewhere we might like to see, or even that we've had two heavy days and feel we want a light one then we can just do 30 miles in a day. Sometimes (make that often) your back-side and legs make that decision for you. Certainly heavy panniers, and in your case the need to pitch your tent, will also be factors to consider.
We try to, well, actually, no - we always plan ahead. We don't camp, but use B&Bs that we pre-book, but then our trips being themed generally around the Western Front make that easier to achieve than perhaps the long haul you are contemplating.
You've got some good advice already, You're welcome to look at the websites covering a good few of my trips in case they help
http://www.geocities.com/cyclefranceuk
You're also welcome to contact me via the email link on the sites if you want any further info.
Have a good trip!
How long you spend in the saddle is up to you - we tend to mix that quite a bit. Say if we are on a good stretch and have no known diversions then we will go for 60 miles, but if our toute takes in somewhere we might like to see, or even that we've had two heavy days and feel we want a light one then we can just do 30 miles in a day. Sometimes (make that often) your back-side and legs make that decision for you. Certainly heavy panniers, and in your case the need to pitch your tent, will also be factors to consider.
We try to, well, actually, no - we always plan ahead. We don't camp, but use B&Bs that we pre-book, but then our trips being themed generally around the Western Front make that easier to achieve than perhaps the long haul you are contemplating.
You've got some good advice already, You're welcome to look at the websites covering a good few of my trips in case they help
http://www.geocities.com/cyclefranceuk
You're also welcome to contact me via the email link on the sites if you want any further info.
Have a good trip!
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peter236uk
- Posts: 543
- Joined: 14 Feb 2007, 1:44pm
hours on bike
speedsixdave sounds like my kind of touring
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krossbar
Calais to Alps
Thanks for the tips.
I've now managed to borrow a small tent that weighs about 1.8kg. Went out for an 80 miler loaded up for first time the other day - about 8kg on th back incl. pannier weight and managed this in about 12mph moving avg which didn't seem too bad given nasty North Downs hills but I need to do a 3 day dry run now.
I've now managed to borrow a small tent that weighs about 1.8kg. Went out for an 80 miler loaded up for first time the other day - about 8kg on th back incl. pannier weight and managed this in about 12mph moving avg which didn't seem too bad given nasty North Downs hills but I need to do a 3 day dry run now.
I try to do this sort of camping trip every year in France and think that the advice given is pretty sound. Plan for fifty miles a day which I think is reasonable, as there will be days you will do more and days you will do less.
Everything depends on what you want for yourself really as regards mileage. I like to cycle every day and do not care too much for sightseeing but prefer to view the countryside as I pedal. Again, as I try to be away by at least eight am, I like to try to have the back of the day's mileage broken by lunch-time. Perhaps 45-50 miles and then perhaps another 20 or so before stopping at around 4.30 and finding a camp-site. I don't like stopping too long for lunch either, so a quick snack is fine as I have something substantial in the evening.
The point is finding a routine that suits you personally, as pressing too hard is a source of stress, the last thing one wants on holiday. I'm off with my bike on the 21st of June for a couple of months to roam about France and can't wait.
Everything depends on what you want for yourself really as regards mileage. I like to cycle every day and do not care too much for sightseeing but prefer to view the countryside as I pedal. Again, as I try to be away by at least eight am, I like to try to have the back of the day's mileage broken by lunch-time. Perhaps 45-50 miles and then perhaps another 20 or so before stopping at around 4.30 and finding a camp-site. I don't like stopping too long for lunch either, so a quick snack is fine as I have something substantial in the evening.
The point is finding a routine that suits you personally, as pressing too hard is a source of stress, the last thing one wants on holiday. I'm off with my bike on the 21st of June for a couple of months to roam about France and can't wait.
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speedsixdave
- Posts: 868
- Joined: 19 Apr 2007, 1:48pm
- Location: Ashbourne, UK
Georgew: couple of months in France, you lucky thing, you. There's not much that will make me more jealous.
peter236uk: thanks, it's a system that's been carefully honed to combine to best effect my primary loves of riding, sleeping, sitting on my fat erse and drinking. I have it down to a fine art now.
What I like most about touring for a length of time is how the 'real world' slowly fades away and your own routine seems more and more involving. A month on a bike feels like a year of work time.
I remember in 2001 being about 3 weeks into the Alps when I heard - a day late - about September 11th. I'd ridden about 20 miles on a sunny Provence morning and stopped in a little village to eat some breakfast under the shade of a tree. I caught sight of a newspaper with those pictures and when I'd finally worked out what at happened it was like reading something in a history book or a novel - it just didn't seem to belong to my world of eating, sleeping and riding. I felt like a medieval peasant must have on hearing about Agincourt two weeks later.
Sorry that's a bit of a ramble but I'm sat here pretending to work and the sun's shining and the birds singing and I'd rather be touring in my own world again. You lucky, lucky things.
peter236uk: thanks, it's a system that's been carefully honed to combine to best effect my primary loves of riding, sleeping, sitting on my fat erse and drinking. I have it down to a fine art now.
What I like most about touring for a length of time is how the 'real world' slowly fades away and your own routine seems more and more involving. A month on a bike feels like a year of work time.
I remember in 2001 being about 3 weeks into the Alps when I heard - a day late - about September 11th. I'd ridden about 20 miles on a sunny Provence morning and stopped in a little village to eat some breakfast under the shade of a tree. I caught sight of a newspaper with those pictures and when I'd finally worked out what at happened it was like reading something in a history book or a novel - it just didn't seem to belong to my world of eating, sleeping and riding. I felt like a medieval peasant must have on hearing about Agincourt two weeks later.
Sorry that's a bit of a ramble but I'm sat here pretending to work and the sun's shining and the birds singing and I'd rather be touring in my own world again. You lucky, lucky things.
Big wheels good, small wheels better.
Two saddles best!
Two saddles best!
horizon wrote:georgew: I find that my daily mileage plummets when camping. This is partly due to choosing hilly country but also due to packing in the morning and the extra weight. I probably still carry too much stuff! Have you ever weighed/estimated your load? And how long do you reckon on packing each day?
I thin it's important to develop routines in order to cut down on packing times. Always keep items in the same place so that they are always to hand. After a month on the road this becomes second nature. I would usually be up at six and after the inevitable porridge and tea and then washing etc. I would usually be off by 7.30-8.00 am. During the heat-wave in France around four years ago, I would be up at five and away at first light so as to finish my cycling at around one pm. It was too hot and dangerous to cycle after that time.
As regards weight, I try to travel as light as one can when camping. I try to keep between 22-28 lbs, excluding water and fuel. Too much weight and my knees give up so it's vital for me not to overdo it re the load I carry. This year for the first time I'll be using a trailer and I've chosen the lightest one I could find, the "Extrawheel". It's only 8 lbs so I thought this was not too much of a weight penalty set against the advantages it offers. I'll try to post a report on this when I return in August which I hope will be helpful to others.
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krossbar
Thanks for all the info everyone, and just thought I'd update you all with my progress. I just did my first multi-day trip "dry run", well three days actually. I used Y/Hostel first night at Arundel, then camped in New Forest on second night. Managed about 67 miles each day and felt ok. Did feel I could manage more miles per day if need be. It wasn't as hilly as some of my local training rides which helped. Only a month to go to the main event.
krossbar wrote:Thanks for all the info everyone, and just thought I'd update you all with my progress. I just did my first multi-day trip "dry run", well three days actually. I used Y/Hostel first night at Arundel, then camped in New Forest on second night. Managed about 67 miles each day and felt ok. Did feel I could manage more miles per day if need be. It wasn't as hilly as some of my local training rides which helped. Only a month to go to the main event.
Keep your eye peeled for a bald, white-bearded, middle-aged man pulling a trailer and sweating more than is good for him. I'm off on the 21st of June and will be heading from Belgium down to the South-west before returning and following the Loire valley across to Roanne and heading North.