Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
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mcallaghan
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Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
I think I'll use that 'EastCoast' website to book a direct train to Holyhead. Of course, none of them arrive early enough for the 10-AM ferry to Dublin (which would give me time to find a campsite and explore Dublin a bit) so I'll have to settle for the 1PM ferry and hope that an hour or so is enough time to find a campsite/get some mileage in before it gets too late in the day for such things.
Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
We used the ferry from Holyhead to Dublin last year. You need to be aware of a few issues which we hadn't expected and make this journey less easy than it should be.
1. There are two ferry companies running this service and between them there are about 4 journeys made each day. Two of these are for vehicles and two do not take vehicles, i.e. they are pedestrian ferries (though they are large boats). On any other pedestrian ferry elsewhere that I've used bikes are able to be taken, but for some reason (to do with the ramp up to the ferry according to the woman at the ferry terminal we spoke to) they do not allow bikes onto their pedestrian ferries, so you are limited to just two ferries a day (I can't remember if this applied to just one or both the companies, but I think it was both). This didn't seem to be advertised on the website, and we turned up at Dublin in the afternoon expecting to be able to board the ferry, as did another cyclist. We weren't allowed to board, despite already having return tickets, and had to find somewhere to stay for the night and take the first vehicle ferry the next day.
2. As an example of the appalling non-integration of our transport services in Britain, the train services manage not to meet the ferry services. In fact they seem to be designed specifically not to. The overnight ferry from Dublin arrives in Holyhead about 2a.m. and just misses the last train out of Holyhead, which bizarrely goes about half an hour earlier and probably completely devoid of any passengers. Thus every night Holyhead station has a large number of people sitting around and trying to sleep on its platforms, waiting for the first train in the morning, which leaves at about 5 or 6a.m. I haven't checked if this is still the current situation but it certainly was last year.
Best of luck with this journey, and sorry to be the bearer of bad news. To reach Dublin from the ferry terminal, you have to cycle along a particularly horrible fast road that takes all the heavy lorries through the decaying industrial area for about 2 miles, so not a pleasant ride. We rode there and back several times attempting to board a ferry, and never found a reasonable route to use. There is a less busy road which has a lot of old tramlines along it, which gives a direct route half of the way there, but you still end up on the busy road at the end.
I'll also post some comments about using the train in Britain separately.
1. There are two ferry companies running this service and between them there are about 4 journeys made each day. Two of these are for vehicles and two do not take vehicles, i.e. they are pedestrian ferries (though they are large boats). On any other pedestrian ferry elsewhere that I've used bikes are able to be taken, but for some reason (to do with the ramp up to the ferry according to the woman at the ferry terminal we spoke to) they do not allow bikes onto their pedestrian ferries, so you are limited to just two ferries a day (I can't remember if this applied to just one or both the companies, but I think it was both). This didn't seem to be advertised on the website, and we turned up at Dublin in the afternoon expecting to be able to board the ferry, as did another cyclist. We weren't allowed to board, despite already having return tickets, and had to find somewhere to stay for the night and take the first vehicle ferry the next day.
2. As an example of the appalling non-integration of our transport services in Britain, the train services manage not to meet the ferry services. In fact they seem to be designed specifically not to. The overnight ferry from Dublin arrives in Holyhead about 2a.m. and just misses the last train out of Holyhead, which bizarrely goes about half an hour earlier and probably completely devoid of any passengers. Thus every night Holyhead station has a large number of people sitting around and trying to sleep on its platforms, waiting for the first train in the morning, which leaves at about 5 or 6a.m. I haven't checked if this is still the current situation but it certainly was last year.
Best of luck with this journey, and sorry to be the bearer of bad news. To reach Dublin from the ferry terminal, you have to cycle along a particularly horrible fast road that takes all the heavy lorries through the decaying industrial area for about 2 miles, so not a pleasant ride. We rode there and back several times attempting to board a ferry, and never found a reasonable route to use. There is a less busy road which has a lot of old tramlines along it, which gives a direct route half of the way there, but you still end up on the busy road at the end.
I'll also post some comments about using the train in Britain separately.
Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
Re taking bikes on trains, as someone who has done this many times, some of the information given on this thread seems misleading to me. I think that Richard Fairhurst's post is the most reliable. You need to be aware that there are about 20 different train operating companies in Britain and between them they have trains made up of numerous different types and layouts, and the conditions for carrying bikes are dependent both on the whim of that company and the train layout. Each company has a cycle policy which can be found on their website or through the National Rail website.
Apart from Richard, most posters on this thread appear to leave their panniers on their bikes. I never do and in numerous journeys have hardly ever seen anyone else do so. The reason isn't to do with security. It is because, as Richard says, the layout of space for carrying bikes is very limited, and full panniers take up far more space than the bike alone does, and will limit the space available for other bikes. This can become a real hassle for other cyclists trying to get their bike on a train, as space is always very limited.
You also need to be aware that, although most long distance trains state that you need to book your bike on in advance (normally up to 2 hours before the train has left the station it starts from), a booking does not guarantee that you will be able to get your bike on. With many journeys, especially on popular commuting routes, many cyclists will just turn up and put their bike on without a booking, and the majority of train conductors don't have the time or inclination to monitor this (a few will). I tend to find most conductors are quite reasonable if they know that you are a stranger and don't know the system, but as has been stated, train companies are fined heavily for overstaying the time allocated to them at any station, so the conductor's main aim is to get everyone and their luggage onto the train as quickly as possible.
Where a bike is carried in a train differs depending on the train layout and type, but you need to know that on many some trains, especially the London suburban sefvices, there isn't any specific place for bikes to go, and on these you will need to just stand with your bike near to the doorway.
If we know which train journeys you think you will be taking, it will be easier for someone on this forum to give more specific information about taking bikes on that service.
The one 'good' (in heavily inverted commas! - this is a rhetorical statement before I get any flak over it
) thing that can be said about the present situation is that the situation is so confusing that it has put most people off trying to take their bikes onto trains (which I'm sure was always the intention) and thus there is usually room for a bike on a train these days, which wasn't the case 10 or 20 years ago.
Apart from Richard, most posters on this thread appear to leave their panniers on their bikes. I never do and in numerous journeys have hardly ever seen anyone else do so. The reason isn't to do with security. It is because, as Richard says, the layout of space for carrying bikes is very limited, and full panniers take up far more space than the bike alone does, and will limit the space available for other bikes. This can become a real hassle for other cyclists trying to get their bike on a train, as space is always very limited.
You also need to be aware that, although most long distance trains state that you need to book your bike on in advance (normally up to 2 hours before the train has left the station it starts from), a booking does not guarantee that you will be able to get your bike on. With many journeys, especially on popular commuting routes, many cyclists will just turn up and put their bike on without a booking, and the majority of train conductors don't have the time or inclination to monitor this (a few will). I tend to find most conductors are quite reasonable if they know that you are a stranger and don't know the system, but as has been stated, train companies are fined heavily for overstaying the time allocated to them at any station, so the conductor's main aim is to get everyone and their luggage onto the train as quickly as possible.
Where a bike is carried in a train differs depending on the train layout and type, but you need to know that on many some trains, especially the London suburban sefvices, there isn't any specific place for bikes to go, and on these you will need to just stand with your bike near to the doorway.
If we know which train journeys you think you will be taking, it will be easier for someone on this forum to give more specific information about taking bikes on that service.
The one 'good' (in heavily inverted commas! - this is a rhetorical statement before I get any flak over it
) thing that can be said about the present situation is that the situation is so confusing that it has put most people off trying to take their bikes onto trains (which I'm sure was always the intention) and thus there is usually room for a bike on a train these days, which wasn't the case 10 or 20 years ago.Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
Hi
FWIW - if you are travelling by train in North Wales you may well be on a train run by Arriva Trains Wales. They do not take bike bookings any more. The reason being, I was told, that there is no way of policing the bookings. My son and I have taken our bikes (both with two full rear panniers each) on from South Wales to Holyhead and back four times in the last eight weeks and haven't encountered a problem. The carriage for bikes is a normal small passenger carriage with a space set aside for two bikes. You will get more than two cyclists on some trains wanting to use the space and I've found other cyclists very accommodating when bike shuffling is callled for.
Best
T
FWIW - if you are travelling by train in North Wales you may well be on a train run by Arriva Trains Wales. They do not take bike bookings any more. The reason being, I was told, that there is no way of policing the bookings. My son and I have taken our bikes (both with two full rear panniers each) on from South Wales to Holyhead and back four times in the last eight weeks and haven't encountered a problem. The carriage for bikes is a normal small passenger carriage with a space set aside for two bikes. You will get more than two cyclists on some trains wanting to use the space and I've found other cyclists very accommodating when bike shuffling is callled for.
Best
T
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mcallaghan
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Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
I noticed that about the Trains/Ferries in Holyhead. The Ferries JUST leave before the trains arrive.
I just received an email from my Uncle with more details on our LeJog. I may not need to worry about traveling on the train with my bike (at least until my return journey). Our LEJOG looks like it'll finish on a bank-holiday, so theres talk of it being cheaper to fly from Inverness then to rent a car or take other service. We would ship our bikes home as well - my Uncle suggested shipping mine to his old-workplace in Cardiff. This would mean taking a train from Milton Keynes Central (where my Uncle lives) to Cardiff. Train times for this are (obviously) much more flexible and frequent. I think I'd go in the morning and be able to explore Cardiff on foot, pickup my bike and head off the following day.
Does anyone have experience purchasing Ferry Tickets the day-of or day-before planned ferry? I lose a day either way on the Ferry to Dublin.
I just received an email from my Uncle with more details on our LeJog. I may not need to worry about traveling on the train with my bike (at least until my return journey). Our LEJOG looks like it'll finish on a bank-holiday, so theres talk of it being cheaper to fly from Inverness then to rent a car or take other service. We would ship our bikes home as well - my Uncle suggested shipping mine to his old-workplace in Cardiff. This would mean taking a train from Milton Keynes Central (where my Uncle lives) to Cardiff. Train times for this are (obviously) much more flexible and frequent. I think I'd go in the morning and be able to explore Cardiff on foot, pickup my bike and head off the following day.
Does anyone have experience purchasing Ferry Tickets the day-of or day-before planned ferry? I lose a day either way on the Ferry to Dublin.
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gloomyandy
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Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
Hi,
I know this thread is about some specific ferries, but just in case anyone is reading this and plans to use the CalMac ferries that link the islands off the west coast to mainland Scotland....
With these ferries there is no need to book in advance (unless you are travelling as large group), just turn up on the day and pay then, the web site has no way to book a passenger only ticket. Bikes travel free. The boarding system is pretty simple. There is usually a sign that tells you where to wait. You will either be boarded before any cars, or more likely after all the cars. The crew will tell you where to put your bike, there is almost always a rail with rope to secure the bike with, you can leave your bags attached. I've used these ferries many times over the years and have always had a great service from the staff.
Andy
I know this thread is about some specific ferries, but just in case anyone is reading this and plans to use the CalMac ferries that link the islands off the west coast to mainland Scotland....
With these ferries there is no need to book in advance (unless you are travelling as large group), just turn up on the day and pay then, the web site has no way to book a passenger only ticket. Bikes travel free. The boarding system is pretty simple. There is usually a sign that tells you where to wait. You will either be boarded before any cars, or more likely after all the cars. The crew will tell you where to put your bike, there is almost always a rail with rope to secure the bike with, you can leave your bags attached. I've used these ferries many times over the years and have always had a great service from the staff.
Andy
Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
gloomyandy wrote:just in case anyone is reading this and plans to use the CalMac ferries that link the islands off the west coast to mainland Scotland....
Thanks Andy, that's useful and reassuring for my first cycle tour in the autumn!
Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
Jon Lucas wrote:Apart from Richard, most posters on this thread appear to leave their panniers on their bikes. I never do and in numerous journeys have hardly ever seen anyone else do so. The reason isn't to do with security. It is because, as Richard says, the layout of space for carrying bikes is very limited, and full panniers take up far more space than the bike alone does, and will limit the space available for other bikes. This can become a real hassle for other cyclists trying to get their bike on a train, as space is always very limited.
That's a fair comment, and I have heard it about many services. I just haven't experienced it myself. The trains I've used have fallen into 5 or 6 types. The ones I've used most commonly are in East Anglia, and they mostly don't have a specific place for bikes. The newer ones do have lots of space around the toilets (I think it is intended to be multi-use space), so I have occupied that space with my bike. Others, I just park near the doors, or the folding up seats for buggies and wheel chairs (being prepared to move my bike if a buggy or wheel chair user comes along).
I have also used trains that have a separate carriage for bikes and large luggage. Some trains (not too many these days) have a manned guard carriage where bikes can go. They may or may not let cyclists remain with the bike in those. The last sort I have used, have a locking compartment behind the driver. I think two or maybe three bikes will fit in those. Except for one journey, I have always been the lone cyclist on these, so there was no need to remove my panniers. The one time my bike had to share, I was travelling light, and had removed one pannier and taken it to my seat because my lunch and valuables were in it. The other bike fit into the space left without any problem.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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mcallaghan
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Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
Great information guys.
Does anyone have experience with Irish Railways? I may have a bit of a time crunch, so was thinking of cutting our 3 - 4 days of riding by taking a Train from Dublin to Cork. Looks like relatively cheap fare so far, but no mention of bikes (no reservation needed?). Hopefully over the next few days I can finalize my route for Ireland and see how much leeway I have with my choices of travel.
Does anyone have experience with Irish Railways? I may have a bit of a time crunch, so was thinking of cutting our 3 - 4 days of riding by taking a Train from Dublin to Cork. Looks like relatively cheap fare so far, but no mention of bikes (no reservation needed?). Hopefully over the next few days I can finalize my route for Ireland and see how much leeway I have with my choices of travel.
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jjpeterberger
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Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
Cunobelin wrote:Unfortunately the emphasis on UK trains is 3rd world "Cattle Truck" commuting and cram in as many people as you can. Space for luggage and bicycles is non existent or limited on many services.
When you realise that the awards for being "cycle friendly" usually go to ideas that keep bikes OFF the trains you will get the idea.
There is also no coherent policy or strategy. South West Trains used to allow folding bikes on without issue, but they now want you to hire, so the latest is that they will only be allowed on if they fit in one of the luggage racks - which are few and far between. There are also limitations on particular services, times and places.
This booklet will give contact details and some of the restrictions. It has not however been kept fully up to date
Bizarrely when I went to Scotland last year it was easier and less hassle to fly than travel by train!
Thanks for the link. Even if everything isn't updated, the contact numbers are there.
Jay
Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
trecelyn wrote:Hi
FWIW - if you are travelling by train in North Wales you may well be on a train run by Arriva Trains Wales. They do not take bike bookings any more. The reason being, I was told, that there is no way of policing the bookings. My son and I have taken our bikes (both with two full rear panniers each) on from South Wales to Holyhead and back four times in the last eight weeks and haven't encountered a problem. The carriage for bikes is a normal small passenger carriage with a space set aside for two bikes. You will get more than two cyclists on some trains wanting to use the space and I've found other cyclists very accommodating when bike shuffling is callled for.
Best
T
That doesn't seem to be universal as I travelled from Haverfordwest to Manchester on Monday (9th July) on an Arriva Trains Wales service & had a bike reservation - at least I had the tickets saying I had a reservation!
Rick.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
Re: Lets talk Trains...and ferries.
mcallaghan wrote:Great information guys.
Does anyone have experience with Irish Railways? I may have a bit of a time crunch, so was thinking of cutting our 3 - 4 days of riding by taking a Train from Dublin to Cork. Looks like relatively cheap fare so far, but no mention of bikes (no reservation needed?). Hopefully over the next few days I can finalize my route for Ireland and see how much leeway I have with my choices of travel.
Not recent I'm afraid. Dublin to the west coast by train 6 or 7 years ago the train had a guards van with ample space. Also I think, unlike the UK, you need to buy a (cheap) ticket for the bike.
Worth knowing is that intercity buses in Ireland carry bikes. Something like a £5 on top of the passenger fare for most of the way from the west coast to Belfast. May be at the discretion of the driver but Ireland tends to be more easy going than the UK.
Some Irish info at
http://www.cycletourer.co.uk/cycletouring/ireland.shtml