Cheap Used Touring bike for complete Novice

[revenup]

Hi,

I have recently become very interested in bicycle touring, and I've been looking for a low cost bike to wet my feet with (I'm also a poor student hence low cost). I would like to use the bike for short touring Scotland to start with (although I think by the time I sort out a bike the weather would be too cold, for the accompanied camping), as well as some commuting/leisure riding.
I really like the touring bike designs as opposed to the converted mountain bikes.
I have looked at a number of bikes recently, and I just saw a Dawes Horizon 2003, sale on ebay for over £300, eventhough I have seen them new for 550, is that normal?!
There are alos bikes that don't seem like tourers but are described as tourers, eg
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/specialized-road-touring-bike-/140811823833?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item20c909ead9
My knowledge of bike types and brands is minimal, how can you distinguish a worthy tourer from other types on the less popular models and brands?
Also what do you think about Claud Butler Super Dalesman as a tourer?
Any advice and recomendation will be very much appreciated.

Many Thanks

[mattsccm]

Usual ebay rotten photos. You click enlarge and nowt worthwhile happens. I don't remember Spec ever making a touring bike but it might well be a Tricross. Are there braze ons for that rack.
Very breifly, whilst you can tour on anything, just look for something that can be given low gears if not fitted, some potential for fitting a rack, and maybe mudguards and something that fits. For every 10 people that replie you will get 11 answers as to what makes a good bike.
Just don't waste money on something thats knackered. eg assume that all used chain and sprockets are worn out unless proved otherwise.

[al_yrpal]

The basics are:-
Braze ons for a rear rack.
Preferably mudguard mountings. Mudguards are good.
Strong frame
Low gears (mtb gearing is ideal)
Ability to lock out forks if its a mtb
Aluminium wheels, avoid steel rims
Smooth tyres
You can tour on practically anything. Some people like drops, some like flats. Commuter bikes like Subways, hybrids, as well as specialised touring bikes.
Avoid flimsy lightweight bikes which can be trouble with heavy loads.
Ideally bottom gear should be 22" or lower calculated by mutiplying wheel diameter in inches by number of smallest chainwheel teeth divided by number of largest sprocket teeth.
Have a nice trip

Al

[Swallow]

Don't know what that Specialized is but it's not a Tricross. I suspect it's a Allez, my son's Allez has braze ons for a rack, that doesn't make it a tourer. Second hand can be a good way to buy on a budget but be aware, you can spend a lot of money replacing a worn drive train.

[Vorpal]

A bike doesn't have to be a 'tourer' to be good for touring. Any comfortable bike that can carry or pull luggage can be used for touring. I've done a fair amount of touring on a hybrid.

That said, a tourer is designed for touring. What that means may vary some from one place to another (continental touring bikes usually have flat or trekking handlebars rather than drops, for example). But mudguards and a rear luggage rack are a good place to start.

A second hand bike will often get you the best value for money, but if you aren't knowledgeable, get some help from someone who is.

Also, it may be helpful to do some cycling and figure out what you like and don't like in a bicycle before buying one, if you can. Can you borrow a bicycle (or a few) to try? Do you have a bicycle?

[revenup]

Thank you for all the replies, specially for the full spec list by al_yrpal.
Vorpal - my current bike is worthless, and too small, I bought it while my car was broken down (I was fixing it, so took a couple of months). I've done quite a bit of cycling but mainly commuting and mountain biking (I broke my last bike and my shoulder at the same time - cheap chinese bike from ebay).

I recently rode my friends Dawes Ultra and I loved it, but I can't afford one at this time.

Would you recommend converting a mountain bike to keep the cost down? If so are there any low cost brands/models you can recommend?
Also what would I need to change, eg rims? Gear Shifts?break leavers?

Many Thanks

[al_yrpal]

Have a look in Decathlon if there is one near you. Their Fitness bikes might suit and their hardtail MTBS are hard to beat at the price. All you would need to change is the tyres, add some cruguards and get a suitable rack. In Halfords the Subway is good all purpose hybrid. I tour on one. Classic tourers you might find on EBay are Dawes Galaxies. I paid £46 for one off there a few years ago. There are hundreds of other second hand bikes out there. Have a look at older ads on Gumtree, its sometime cheaper. Don't make insulting low offers but be prepared to haggle a bit, people will often go for 20% less than they are asking if they are getting a bit desperate.
There is nothing you should need to change except on MTBS to get smooth tyres.
Al

[Vorpal]

nThe lowest priced tourer on the market that I'm aware of is The Edinburgh Co-op Country Traveller http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/product ... aveller-12

If you can't afford one of those, I would recommend a hybrid with the following:
braze-ons / eyelets for mudguards and rear rack
no front suspension
bar ends for your handlebars (for additional hand positions)

Hybrids can be either MTB based or road bike based, and it doesn't really matter which one, but keep in mind the following:
-a road based hybrid may have a shorter distance between the pedals and rear axle, and you will end up kicking your panniers
-a road based hybrid may not have clearance for wider tyres and mudguards, even if it has the mountings
-a road based hybrid won't have the lower gears that most of us want to get up hills with luggage

A road bike can also be used with the above cautions. If there isn't clearance and mounting for mudguards, there are also mudguards called 'race blades' that can be used on bikes without the clearance and mounting for mudguards. The main problem with a road bike, or road based hybrid will be finding something with sufficiently low gearing and mounting for a rack. There are also make-do solutions for racks, but if buying something new for touring, I would avoid them.

Sheldon Brown is an excellent resource for learning about bicycles... http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

[MarkF]

Agree with everything Vorpal has posted.

Don't focus on "tourer" too much, my regular tourer was stolen shortly before I set off to cross Spain, I had to use a Sirrus Sport hybrid that I had ridden just twice before for about 50 miles total. It did the job fully loaded, and, if I hadn't have had the Sirrus hanging around I'd have gone on my 1990's GT Outpost steel MTB that I paid £50 for, no problem.

[steeleagle]

The best tourers are old mountain bikes.

They are strong and comfortable to ride, will handle well when loaded up. Have larger cranks and wide range gearing which is great for pulling loads. The parts are available everywhere; 26" tyres and tubes are the easiest to find, flat bar brake levers and cables are also easiest to find.

They are cheap. Much much easier to get hold of a good quality rigid or front suspension mtb bike than a decent 700c drop bar bike.

[al_yrpal]

If you get a mtb with discs you won't ever kick your panniers. There are special racks for MTBS which are set further back, just make sure you get the right one. Don't worry about suspension either. If you can lock out the forks then they are no problem in fact they give you a smoother ride on the flat and downhill, its only uphill that they can be a problem. It's something every mtber knows. I did a 500 mile tour of the outer Hebrides, Skye and the highlands on one in great comfort and at no speed disadvantage. My current tourer is a commuter bike, essentially a mtb with solid forks. I like it because its more comfortable and more stable than a conventional British tourer.

Al

[lowrider]

A cautionary note on second hand, if you are towards the extremes on size too small or too tall you may have difficulty finding a bike of a suitable size. If you are it may be more fruitful to get a brand new bike correctly sized as the search for second hand may be lengthy.

[revenup]

Thanks for all the info, I will have a look at my budget and have a look around to see whats what, and lowrider, I'm below average on height, although bikes are not rare they aren't the typical second hands. To be honest I have always ridden bikes that have been a bit big with toes on the ground, would you discourage that in touring?

[Vorpal]

It doesn't matter how easily you can reach the ground. The main thing that matters in sizing a bicycle is the length from the head tube (where the forks and handle bars are) to the seat tube. You need to be able to reach the handlebars comfortably without putting much weight on your hands. You should not have to adjust the saddle all the back or all the way forward to achieve this. The saddle should also have sufficient height adjustment to allow the leg to very nearly straighten at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

When I am on a bike that is correctly sized for me, if I can reach the ground with my feet from the saddle, it is only by a little.

I suggest going to some bike shops and trying some bikes. It will help you understand what you might get new, help find the right size, and you might find something suitable. Even if you don't, it will help you in the search for the right used bike.

[lowrider]

by revenup » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:37 pm

Thanks for all the info, I will have a look at my budget and have a look around to see whats what, and lowrider, I'm below average on height, although bikes are not rare they aren't the typical second hands. To be honest I have always ridden bikes that have been a bit big with toes on the ground, would you discourage that in touring?

If you can getaway with a 21 inch frame you should be ok if you need a 17 inch I would say you have little chance of getting a tourer in any reasonable time span, an MTB should be easier to get hold of but again small ones aren't. You need to fit a a popular size if your going to get one quickly. If you plan to go this year do not delay a second hand bike may need work you will need too test it, likely modify it and likely repair it as well.

I see you found a Dawes Horizon for £300 to be honest if I found one at that price in an ok condition I would snap it up providing of course you can be sure it fits.

It doesn't matter how easily you can reach the ground. The main thing that matters in sizing a bicycle is the length from the head tube (where the forks and handle bars are) to the seat tube. You need to be able to reach the handlebars comfortably without putting much weight on your hands. You should not have to adjust the saddle all the back or all the way forward to achieve this. The saddle should also have sufficient height adjustment to allow the leg to very nearly straighten at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

When I am on a bike that is correctly sized for me, if I can reach the ground with my feet from the saddle, it is only by a little.

I suggest going to some bike shops and trying some bikes. It will help you understand what you might get new, help find the right size, and you might find something suitable. Even if you don't, it will help you in the search for the right used bike.

I would be careful here this post is implying that a large bike is suitable for touring however I suspect that the poster is not a small person. To get a bike thats ok on length but you cannot comfortably put 2 feet on the ground ( standing over the cross bar) is not a good idea for a loaded bike. I suggest the minimum you should consider is 2 feet on the ground standing over the crossbar with one foot toes or flat from the saddle. For touring I would always err on the side of the bike being smaller rather than larger.

You really need to be able to control the bike when its stopped. This sounds silly but when you have a heavy load on the bike can have a mind of its own its not like an unloaded bike. If the bike starts to fall it can be difficult to control, in a normal situation you could probably jump off to the side to get a good footing, this is what I did many years ago when I was a teenager. However you cant just do that trick if you've got large heavy panniers on they get in the way and the weight does not help. This could be dangerous at a road junction and even more so if you use toe clips or spd`s.

For a shorter person finding a bike you can stand over is always the hardest thing to do. Taller people seem to think length is the most important criteria however you can fit a shorter or a longer stem this means you can effectively change the reach, you can do nothing with a bike with a top tube that is too high.

You are unlikely to find a bike that will be ok in reach if you cannot stand over the top tube this is especially true of MTB`s. Old MTB`s especially 90`s ones seem to be long, you should budget for a replacement stem if you go down this route. My 90`s bike had only a 14 inch frame but the stem was too long in reach for long rides in comfort.

For this year time is your biggest problem, if you look at ebay and gumtree and do not see a candidate then Decathelon might be your best bet but allow for tyre changes purchase of panniers etc. If you budget allows look at a Ridgeback Velocity / Comet or similar from another manufacturer (not a comfort hybrid). The top end of that style is very similar to touring bikes but with flat bars. A touring bike is going tobe difficult to find