Europe - Must sees/Dos

[JoshiTravels]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice on how to plan a route through Europe.

We'll be doing the biggest distances by train, so this is a very rough idea of the sort of route we'd like to take. Coastal, inland, hilly, forested - all sorts of terrain, but must be accessible on our road bikes!

Initially we looked at 4 weeks, now looking to extend that to up to 8.

Where is best to go to find information on areas to go to in each country for cycling? Any generic googling just brings back organised cycle tours which we dont want to do.

Thanks

[Barrenfluffit]

Even 8 weeks is not enough time to see Europe. Choose a specific area and do it properly.
One problem with travelling by train/plane is that you tend to end up in larger city's. The availability of facilities does make them much easier. The net result can be a trip that loses the sense that these places are connected and of the gradual changes that distinguish them; it becomes a series of cities. At the same time you loose some of the advantage that a bike gives you in going slightly away from popular destinations. Something's are worthwhile purely in the context you do them rather than in an absolute sense. I particularly like trips which incorporate some personal mission, be it exploring an area with a personal historic connection or following a route or trail as a personal discovery.

The eurovelo route's might give you some idea's. The Local tourist office's website may have suggested rides and google maps has cycle routes.

[jamesgilbert]

I agree with Barrenfluffit. For me the main attraction of cycle touring is discovering places that aren't on any "must see / do" lists.

In the same timescale (2 months) it's possible to cross a fairly large part of Europe without any trains, taking in some major cities and sightseeing on the way, but also visiting all the "in between" places.

[honesty]

Id slightly disagree with the above, purely based on what the goal of the trip is. If its to see European sites and get some cycling in then what your doing is fine. If its to cycle tour Europe then you'd probably be better to pick a eurovelo route and cycle the full length.

Are you thinking of bringing your own bikes or hiring them at each location? Bikes on trains in Europe can be problematical with some of the fast train services requiring them to be basically stripped down and boxed up.

As for cycle route planning, Google maps is actually a pretty good source now as they've spread their cycle mpas to most countries in western Europe. Other than that try looking for the national cycle network group as that will give information on the longer routes. You will find the quality of this differs by country. The German one is excellent, the Italian one looks good, but is mostly air, the French one is shocking... Any route planning site that has OSM cycle maps on it will have detailed routes of most of Europe as well.

[nirakaro]

After just a quick look at your map, I'd suggest (unless you have strong reasons for going there) -
Sicily and Calabria are by no means the nicest/easiest bits of Italy to cycle. It can be a tad primitive and lacking in facilities.
The Mediterranean coast is by no means the nicest/easiest bit of France to cycle. It can be a tad overdeveloped and oversupplied with facilities - and their users.

[Peter Molog]

Some remarks on your planning.

The first thing I noticed on your map was the train/flight connection between Lübeck, Germany (?) and Stockholm. You will have to fly, because in Sweden It is hardly possible to take your bike on the train. But is there an airport there?

But more importend is the stress.
Because there are some parts you willhave to take the plane. And that will be booked before you leave. So you should be at a particular time somewhere.

In my experience, on a biking trip, the first part I feel completely free te go where I want. In the second part I feel obliged to go in a specific direction. An in the third part it is a bit stress, to be on a specific time at a specific place, to catch a boat, a plane, or being at home.
And what you are doing, is introducing these stress a lot of times.

So don't.

In 8 weeks you can cover a distance around 4000 km (2500 miles). Thats a lot of Europe to see.

[BeeKeeper]

How about fly to Faro in Portugal, then cycle north to the top of Spain, strike east, including the Picos, down the Spanish side of the Pyrenees, along the bottom of France, but inland, avoiding the coast to say Nice then diagonally across France to a channel port, say Roscoff and ferry back to UK? This will be less stressful and you will see lots and meet plenty of people.

[mjr]

I see that you're planning to ride through Catalonia. I heartily recommend http://www.elsmussols.org/ as a relaxed rural stop, plus it's also near (well 7km uphill) the Via Verde from Tortosa (near the coastal bike route) to Alcaniz or there's another route that goes up to the north coast, maybe Santiago. Although I think your map suggests continuing along the coastal route to Valencia. I've not ridden the coastal route at all - just seen signs to it at Tortosa, which looks fairly inland but I think the route might avoid the Deltebre marshes.

[Vorpal]

I largely agree with the posts above. Trying to see Europe in 8 weeks is like trying to see North America in 8 weeks.

If it were me, I would not try to see everything and cycle tour. I would do one or the other. If I planned to see as much as possible of Europe in 8 weeks, I would get a rail pass and rent a bike where I wanted to go for a ride or mini tour.

If, on the other hand, I wanted to tour by bicycle, I would just plan a route through countries I particularly wanted to see and ride most of it. The train systems in Europe, in general, are fairly good about taking bicycles, but the rules vary from one country to another, and on long distance and international trains, it is normal to have to pack them in a box or bag, which is obviously a hassle in the middle of a tour. Ferries are much easier, and in some places, can greatly enhance a cycle tour.

I would also encourage you to leave time to be a tourist. For myself, I would plan something more like 2500 to maximum 3000 kilometers in 8 weeks, so that I can take days off, or each day at a slow pace to see tourist sites, and not *have* to go 70 or 80 km per day. I don't mind the occasional longer day, but I also don't like to feel pressed for time. I won't enjoy myself if I have to go 120 km day after day, and I won't enjoy myself if I don't have time to stop and look at stuff. I'd rather plan for shorter days, so I can fritter the day away taking pictures, if I want to. That would be even more important if I were camping.

Obviously you have to decide for yourself what your priorities are and how to accomplish them.

[JoshiTravels]

Thanks all for the tips!

Ive had a word with my travelling partner and we've decided to do 3 areas properly, rather than scratch the surface of the whole place!

We decided that of the places we'd never been, Scandinavia, Germany and Greece stood out - so it looks like we'll be trying to sort a route that means most of our time will be in Scandi, train down to Germany for 10 days, get to Greece for 10 days - or roughly anyway. Depends if flying is cheaper/easier.

Unless we did it in reverse, did the 'organised' bit starting in Greece, staying to a schedule, arriving in Germany, then heading to Scandi with all out time left to do our route with no pressure to be anywhere on time then get a ferry back?

What do you reckon?

Also worth considering the weather I guess - June/July is peak Mosquito season in Scandi, but it also means that further north we'll be able to experience the midnight sun (which im sure is both confusing and incredibly tiring, but I want to have said ill do it). The flip side to that is that if we do Greece last, it'll be incredibly hot there.

So two new questions:

1) Scandi-Germany-Greece OR Greece-Germany-Scandi.

2) Suggested routes/places to find ideas?

[Peter Molog]

Completely new idea.

Skip Germany.
Skip Greece.

Concentrate on Skandinavie. It's big enough. Even to big for 8 weeks.

[Vorpal]

There have been a number of threads about Scandinavia.

Here are some that also have links to others.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=81692

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=82513

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=76003

Lots of bedtime reading

[Barrenfluffit]

Central germany can get hot too (due to continental influences) but its weather rather than climate. germany btw is a great place as a tourist and a cyclist. Tons of hostels (independent ones are best) too.

1; Greece. The prettiest bits tend to be hilly. Heat is a particular problem on hills for cyclists in that your personal heat output rises so dramatically. It gets better higher up ( more wind, lower temperatures). Some people do ok but its a hazard. In flatter area's you can rely on your own cooling wind.

2; Mossies. It doesn't take much to make protection worthwhile so maybe the intensity isn't so important!

I'd say do greece when the climate is best and take mozzie protection (head nets, cover up etc). Its a common dilemma when your trying to spanning different zones (also bumps up the luggage required)

[Dudley Manlove]

Concentrate on Skandinavie. It's big enough. Even to big for 8 weeks.

Although, if the OP likes his beer, he may want to escape to Deutchland and take a break from paying 5-8 quid for a pint for a while! More seriously, depending where he goes, it's big and spread out up there, if the OP is short on time and wants to squeeze in as much as possible, it may not be the place to go cycling.

[foxyrider]

I've been touring Germany for over 10 years and when i look at the map there are still huge chunks i've not been to! Of the OP wants an overview of the country a north south route from the Baltic to Alps will give a real impression of the country's diversity.
Prices in Scandinavia for food and drink are high - even self catering isn't cheap! When i did the Danish islands 2 years ago i spent more on food than i did on ferries/trains/accomodation put together!