New Route Planner

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
LittleGreyCat
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby LittleGreyCat » 8 Mar 2017, 10:44am

ossie wrote:
LittleGreyCat wrote:Quick note - I just planned a route from Hook of Holland to Wesel and the start point was in the water at the mouth of the river.

(1) First swim ashore.... :D

I assume I should have specified the ferry port!

Update: couldn't find the ferry port in the search box for the start point (something to consider as Google Maps can do this kind of thing) so had to take the nominal centre of Hook of Holland as the start point then drag the green pointer over to where the map showed the exit of the ferry port.

Overall well impressed so far.

I haven't fully checked, but I assume this follows the Eurovelo 15 route by default as that passes through Wesel?


Just seen your other thread .

You come off the ferry, out and over the railway line and turn first right into the car park. Cycle through the car park and you are on your way. Straight into Rotterdam following whats called the LF12 on http://cycle.travel/map


The route offered me goes north of Rotterdam and into Delft (no complaints. nice place) then via Gouda.
From further digging this is not Eurovelo 15 - at least not for the first part.

Looks like a nice route from what I remember of Holland but I now wonder how much notice the map planning software takes of official long distance cycling routes, Comments further up thread suggest that the planner looks at traffic and other things to plan the route so it may have different priorities.

It would be nice to have a configuration option such as "follow national cycle routes where possible".

This is the most friendly cycle route planner I have found so far as regards maps and vertical profiles which are vital when planning a trip.

Edit: Gah!

Poked around looking for route options and it lost my planned route. So this time I put in Hook of Holland again and it centred on the port, and the route was completely different, following LF 12 along the river through Rotterdam. Thus invalidating all my previous comments.

I can now see the cycle routes prominently displayed which I don't recall seeing before; memo to self save the route and/or take a screen shot!
Anyway, very nice thank you.

LittleGreyCat
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby LittleGreyCat » 9 Mar 2017, 5:05pm

Looking better every minute.
Ferry Port Hook of Holland now appears as a start point. :D

Now for the next challenge.
The UK part of the route is from Felixstowe to Harwich Parkston Quay, the ferry terminal where you embark for Hook of Holland.

I tried to plan this but the planner insists on using the foot ferry which only runs about 9-5 in the summer months.

I would like to be able to tell it to go via Ipswich and Manningtree but at first look I can't see how to add way points.
Cross checking with Google Maps there is an option to avoid ferries which then offers the route I was looking for.

Good planning using a cycle route, but doesn't work out of season or out of foot ferry times.

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RickH
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby RickH » 9 Mar 2017, 7:13pm

Don't forget that the start or finish points can be dragged to a new location if they are not exactly where you want them to be (as well as being able to drag & drop the route to add via points if you want it to go a different way). :)

LittleGreyCat
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby LittleGreyCat » 9 Mar 2017, 10:13pm

RickH wrote:Don't forget that the start or finish points can be dragged to a new location if they are not exactly where you want them to be (as well as being able to drag & drop the route to add via points if you want it to go a different way). :)


Tried that and it when I dragged the route to Ipswich it went down Shotley Peninsula like a rat up a drainpipe and tried to put me on the foot ferry there.

After a bit more dragging I ended up with a drunken spider's web.

The down side of dragging seems to be that it then over rides the intelligent planning for the best cycle routes and you aren't quite sure if you are getting the same routes as an "avoiding ferries" one planned from the start.

I'm not knocking the software which seems pretty damn good; just noting that in Suffolk if foot ferries are included in the route it may be impractical depending on when the ferries are available. It would be nice to be able to accept/decline ferries as you can with some other route planning software.

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mjr
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby mjr » 10 Mar 2017, 12:50am

LittleGreyCat wrote:Tried that and it when I dragged the route to Ipswich it went down Shotley Peninsula like a rat up a drainpipe and tried to put me on the foot ferry there.

Yeah. Don't do that. Drag the route to the bridge north of Manningtree (if you don't mind riding a mile of iffy A road or scooting the pavement) or Dedham and it works.

Really, this is more a fault of Suffolk and Essex being rubbish at cycling than the route planner...
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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andrew_s
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby andrew_s » 10 Mar 2017, 12:55am

That's the problem with dragging - it effectively adds a "via point" so you get the intelligent route from the start to where you dragged the route to, followed by the intelligent route from that point to the end. The resulting route may be completely different to what an intelligent route would be if section of road you dragged from didn't exist.

In my case, if I ask for a route to somewhere to the north east of home, Stratford for example, I get a route that follows NCN 41 through a boggy field. It's no problem to drag to the nearest relatively minor road, but what I don't know is whether some completely different route, perhaps towards Winchcombe, may have been selected it the field wasn't on OpenStreetmap at all. I did ask about the possibility of setting barriers up the way^, but there was some reason why it wasn't practical.

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mjr
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby mjr » 10 Mar 2017, 1:18am

andrew_s wrote:That's the problem with dragging - it effectively adds a "via point" so you get the intelligent route from the start to where you dragged the route to, followed by the intelligent route from that point to the end. The resulting route may be completely different to what an intelligent route would be if section of road you dragged from didn't exist.

Often isn't. Another good trick is to click the "Round Trip" button and see what the two halves are, but that doesn't work for Felixstowe-Harwich because it does a there-and-back.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Richard Fairhurst
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 10 Mar 2017, 10:18am

andrew_s wrote:That's the problem with dragging - it effectively adds a "via point" so you get the intelligent route from the start to where you dragged the route to, followed by the intelligent route from that point to the end. The resulting route may be completely different to what an intelligent route would be if section of road you dragged from didn't exist.


Ah - there's a secret with that I should probably write up somewhere. The secret is to drag and see what other roads it chooses, rather than specifically the one you're dragging to.

So, for example, if I ask for a route from Land's End to John O'Groats, it goes up the west coast. Let's say I want to go east instead. I drag the route to (say) Middlesbrough - doesn't matter exactly where, somewhere roughly in the right direction. It then finds a route via Derby, York and Edinburgh. Once you get further away from Middlesbrough, it's more the "intelligent route" it would have chosen anyway.

So I then put a via point or two somewhere else on the route, on the bit it's automatically chosen - say, one at York and one at Edinburgh - and then remove the Middlesbrough one. Often you can pretty much do this in one drag - move the via point somewhere, look at the rest of the route it's chosen, and drag your via point to somewhere on this. In the NCN 41 example, doing this comes up with a route via Bishop's Cleeve and Stanley Pontlarge.

Ultimately I'd like to have an "avoid this" option, for ferries and sub-par cycle routes and all that. It's tricky because of the way the route-planning internals work - effectively all routes are precomputed (using a process called Contraction Hierarchies) so there's no way to change on the fly either the criteria they're computed on, or the routing graph they use. I do have an idea how it could perhaps be done, but it will require much coffee and scratching of heads... C++ algorithms make my brain hurt.

(The ultimate solution is for Sustrans and Gloucestershire County Council to persuade the farmer to surface that flipping path. Last I heard he wasn't having any of it...)
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides

Bmblbzzz
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby Bmblbzzz » 10 Mar 2017, 1:20pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:(The ultimate solution is for Sustrans and Gloucestershire County Council to persuade the farmer to surface that flipping path. Last I heard he wasn't having any of it...)

Which path? I think this is referring to some path that must have been mentioned some while ago, it's hard to keep track in such a long thread.

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 10 Mar 2017, 2:11pm

andrew_s's mention of "NCN 41 through a boggy field". It's here: http://cycle.travel/map?from=52.0094,-2 ... 55,-2.0589
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LittleGreyCat
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby LittleGreyCat » 10 Mar 2017, 8:59pm

Thanks Richard - that makes sense.

Still getting to grips with all the features, and I'm now aware of via points and how to remove them!

Bmblbzzz
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby Bmblbzzz » 12 Mar 2017, 9:31pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:andrew_s's mention of "NCN 41 through a boggy field". It's here: http://cycle.travel/map?from=52.0094,-2 ... 55,-2.0589

Oh, I know that "path"! I've been lucky in that whenever I've been up there it's been dry weather, but the first time I used it, I was expecting it could be a track through a muddy field. Instead, I found a field with no discernible track or path at all. I just followed the arrows on the gate and then the field edge till I came out on the road - in the right place, luckily. It doesn't need a hard surface, just gravel and some way-marking would be a huge improvement. In fact, even a bit of beaten earth would be an improvement.

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meic
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby meic » 29 Mar 2017, 8:01pm

That time of year when I plan my foreign trip. I had planned out a stage by stage route to Basel (Switzerland) from Dunkerque in France. I asked Cycle.travel for a return trip route and it had taken me a longer way round through Holland and Germany and with a large mountain range to cross.

It appears to have decided it was worth the extra distance and the mountaineering to exploit the flats of Holland and the Rhine. Rather than tackling the Ardennes which is my route out.
Try it from Basel to Dunkerque.
Yma o Hyd

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mjr
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby mjr » 30 Mar 2017, 8:55am

Would you colour the 2d elevation plot by gradient or add a gradient plot option, please? That's one of the few things I still use other sites and apps for. (Too steep and I take a lower geared bike or reroute)
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RobC
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Re: New Route Planner

Postby RobC » 7 Apr 2017, 12:14pm

I'm having trouble getting the print pdf function to work - in fact it's not working at all on either IE or chrome. Anyone else having this problem?

edit - all sorted now
Last edited by RobC on 7 Apr 2017, 12:35pm, edited 1 time in total.