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Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 6 Jul 2017, 6:06pm
by Barred1
Redditch & Bromsgrove CUK group dissolved in March 2017 but Bromsgrove & Redditch now appears to be a new CUK group? What's happening/happened? Is it the same people?

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Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 6 Jul 2017, 10:18pm
by gaz
From the Cycling UK group page:
Bromsgrove & Redditch Affiliated Group (BRAG) are a Cycling UK affiliated group. We are the successors to the dissolved Redditch & Bromsgrove Member Group.

The AG page appears to have been in place since June 2016.

The group page contains an e-mail link to Alan Head, presumably the same one as appears on the November 2015 MG contact list (Nov 2016 contact list too, long after the dissolution).

At a glance the main contact hasn't changed.

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 7:44am
by Barred1
gaz wrote:From the Cycling UK group page:
Bromsgrove & Redditch Affiliated Group (BRAG) are a Cycling UK affiliated group. We are the successors to the dissolved Redditch & Bromsgrove Member Group.

The AG page appears to have been in place since June 2016.

The group page contains an e-mail link to Alan Head, presumably the same one as appears on the November 2015 MG contact list (Nov 2016 contact list too, long after the dissolution).

At a glance the main contact hasn't changed.


I think you'll find that Redditch & Bromsgrove group was dissolved in March 2017 (there's a post somewhere on here about it) and disappeared from the list in the magazine - but a new group Bromsgrove & Redditch has been formed (same towns, just reversed in the name) and now appears in the CUK group listings. The contact name is the same?

So why the change - all seems very strange - if it was a commercial business it could be a tax dodge :shock:

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Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 7:57am
by PH
Barred1 wrote:So why the change - all seems very strange - if it was a commercial business it could be a tax dodge :shock:
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I think you've misunderstood Gaz's comprehensive explanation - one was a Member Group the other is an Affiliated Group, different structure,different rules. The biggest difference is who can participate, most Member Groups activities are aimed at Cycling UK members, Affiliated Groups get to decide for themselves who can participate.
Nothing dodgy about it, in the commercial world it might be the same as a sole trader changing the status of their business to a Limited company.

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 8:35am
by Barred1
PH wrote:
Barred1 wrote:So why the change - all seems very strange - if it was a commercial business it could be a tax dodge :shock:
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I think you've misunderstood Gaz's comprehensive explanation - one was a Member Group the other is an Affiliated Group, different structure,different rules. The biggest difference is who can participate, most Member Groups activities are aimed at Cycling UK members, Affiliated Groups get to decide for themselves who can participate.
Nothing dodgy about it, in the commercial world it might be the same as a sole trader changing the status of their business to a Limited company.


That was a tongue in cheek comment! The real question is what prompted a change - the text for the new Affiliated Group says "We welcome all Cycling UK members (and guests in accordance with Cycling UK rules)" - that seems to still be just for "CUK members"rather than a wider club so what's the difference for prospective riders?

The terminology gets confusing - presumably the new enterprise is not an "affiliated club"

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Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 8:44am
by PH
Barred1 wrote:The terminology gets confusing - presumably the new enterprise is not an "affiliated club"

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It is an affiliated group
http://www.cyclinguk.org/local-groups/bromsgrove

I don't find it confusing at all, are you looking for an explanation, or looking to find something to be critical of?
Member group = Cycling UK makes the rules about who can participate
Affiliated group = Cycling UK say participants have to be members of that group, but they don't tell them what conditions the AG put on their members. An AG might decide everyone needs third party insurance, or needs to be a CUK member of some sort, or has to wear club kit, or anything else they decide. An AG can also offer their members individual affiliated cycling UK membership, which is considerably cheaper than standard CUK membership.

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 8:46am
by gaz
Barred1 wrote:I think you'll find that Redditch & Bromsgrove group was dissolved in March 2017 (there's a post somewhere on here about it) and disappeared from the list in the magazine ...

My mistake :oops: . I picked up the dissolution meeting from a Cycleclips headlined as 6 January 2016. I guess whoever published it forgot to roll the year over as it clearly refers to the March 2017 meeting.

As to the raison d'être, we could all speculate but if you really want to know drop them an e-mail and ask.

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 4:22pm
by Barred1
PH wrote:
Barred1 wrote:The terminology gets confusing - presumably the new enterprise is not an "affiliated club"

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It is an affiliated group
http://www.cyclinguk.org/local-groups/bromsgrove

I don't find it confusing at all, are you looking for an explanation, or looking to find something to be critical of?
Member group = Cycling UK makes the rules about who can participate
Affiliated group = Cycling UK say participants have to be members of that group, but they don't tell them what conditions the AG put on their members. An AG might decide everyone needs third party insurance, or needs to be a CUK member of some sort, or has to wear club kit, or anything else they decide. An AG can also offer their members individual affiliated cycling UK membership, which is considerably cheaper than standard CUK membership.


No criticism - just curiosity ... my question (quote) "The real question is what prompted a change ?" - for what appeared to have been an established group.

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Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 6:44pm
by gaz
Redditch & Bromsgrove became an MG in 2014. I know nothing more of it's history.

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 8:49pm
by PH
Barred1 wrote:No criticism - just curiosity ... my question (quote) "The real question is what prompted a change ?" - for what appeared to have been an established group.

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OK. I understand they were originally a part of Heart of England CTC and became a MG when they became an affiliated club. I only know what I've read, probably on here, which is they were always a small group so I'm guessing they found it better suited their interests to be an AG. Complete speculation, but the usual reasons for becoming an AG are being able to include non CUK members and less admin.
There are pros and cons of both and with the recent changes it's hardly surprising some groups are looking at it, some deciding that being a AG is better for them and others deciding to remain a MG

EDIT - But you know this, the information is contained in a post you started!
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=111621&p=1087356&hilit=heart+of+england#p1087356

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 9:10pm
by Barred1
Yes - I know all that and the most of the thread replies are just going over old ground.

The original question in this thread was why an established group of whatever variety was dissolved and then within a couple of months replaced by another group that covered the same geographic territory with the same contact person.

My interest is because I am not that far away (to the SW) from the apparent catchment area and while I've been a bit of a lone cyclist I am now considering riding with a group - hence the research, and question.

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Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 9:47pm
by gaz
gaz wrote:As to the raison d'être, we could all speculate but if you really want to know drop them an e-mail and ask.

Re: Redditch & Bromsgrove or Bromsgrove & Redditch

Posted: 8 Jul 2017, 7:10am
by Barred1
gaz wrote:
gaz wrote:As to the raison d'être, we could all speculate but if you really want to know drop them an e-mail and ask.


Done - no response

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