The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

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Cycleking
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Cycleking » 14 Apr 2009, 1:23pm

Karen Sutton wrote:This is the way forward for CTC groups; we need to cater for the differing requirements of members or Local Groups will just fizzle out. Often it is impractical to expect one group to run rides to suit every requirement. So the answer is for those members who want something different to start their own group


I beg to differ on this one! It is certainly one solution, to an existing problem. I would argue current groups organise leisure road rides, which will always be the main staple of the CTC, but why do we need to setup new groups to organise different rides? This is complicated, time consuming and bureaucratic solution in my eyes. What percentage of these groups will die during the next year even, because of lack of continued interest? The one great thing about CTC is its longetivity, and surely that would be best served by persuading those who want to organise different events to do it under the existing structure (as well as persuading existing groups it would be in their interests as well). It would be simpler, and would make local groups stronger? Or have I got it wrong?

Karen Sutton
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Karen Sutton » 15 Apr 2009, 8:36am

Cycleking,

I agree entirely with you that it would be better for existing groups to launch new types of rides to attract new members. This would be ideal. In Member Groups which are large and have enough members prepared to do this then it is already happening (as in our Group). But many groups are too small for this to happen. There are also tracts of the UK with no existing CTC groups. In those areas CTC members must be assisted in setting up new groups if there are members who wish to do so.

There is another issue with the expectation that existing Groups should start new initiatives: Is it right to expect a Group which has been in operation for many years (and may be ticking along nicely doing what it has always done) to take on board running rides in which its existing members have no intention of participating. For example, take a Member Group in which members may all be retired and enjoying mid week rides. Is it right to expect them to start leading Saturday afternoon rides for families? If they can give advice to people wanting to set up a new group doing something different, and/or could also be host to the new informal group, then fine. The latter point would remove the necessity for the new group to have all the Committee structure of a full MG.
We should remember that the people running existing Member Groups are Volunteers. They are quite within their rights to continue doing what they have always done; nobody can change that.

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Simon L6
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Simon L6 » 17 Apr 2009, 5:41pm

some of you will recall the motion that I proposed to last year's AGM, which was defeated by the Chair's casting vote.

The main thrust of the resolution was that the national organisation should
- regionalise Newsnet to give local groups a bit of a puff to those receiving it
- ensure that names and addresses of members are sent to local group secretaries
- offer limited start-up funds for local groups
- promotion of new groups on Newsnet
- offer a standard website to local groups

now those Councillors opposed to the resolution made great play of their support for the content, but also said that mandating the national office at the AGM would be a bad thing. They nonetheless said that they would be surprised if all of the above were not put into place by the 2009 AGM

well, guess what................

Karen Sutton
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Karen Sutton » 18 Apr 2009, 4:01pm

Simon L6 wrote:some of you will recall the motion that I proposed to last year's AGM, which was defeated by the Chair's casting vote.

The main thrust of the resolution was that the national organisation should
- regionalise Newsnet to give local groups a bit of a puff to those receiving it
- ensure that names and addresses of members are sent to local group secretaries
- offer limited start-up funds for local groups
- promotion of new groups on Newsnet
- offer a standard website to local groups

now those Councillors opposed to the resolution made great play of their support for the content, but also said that mandating the national office at the AGM would be a bad thing. They nonetheless said that they would be surprised if all of the above were not put into place by the 2009 AGM

well, guess what................


Yes. As Membership Registrar of our Group I have been asking for our membership list for months. I was told in February that I would be sent a list very soon. Well guess what.....................?

Cycleking
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Cycleking » 21 Apr 2009, 12:52pm

Karen,

Quite right about the volunteers, I know as I am one! Something which makes CTC so fantastic. My point is not that existing members should start running new rides, but that those who want to setup new groups could do it as part of existing MG's. To setup a new MG will take more work, much of which will be wasted as far as I can see. However I don't have a lot of knowledge of areas other than mine (shame the CTC mag doesn't feature any DA info), and I have heard (indeed read your posts) about some DA's which haven't always been very helpful, or receptive to change. I'd really like to know more about DA activity, I hear a group on Wearside has been disbanded. If new MG groups increase cycling activity, and those working for CTC then I will be glad to have been proved wrong!

Ian

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Simon L6
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Simon L6 » 21 Apr 2009, 8:53pm

Cycleking wrote: (shame the CTC mag doesn't feature any DA info),


my copy of the mag has a complete list of DAs on page 82. If only Newsnet recognised the existence of DAs...

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ellis rowell
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby ellis rowell » 27 Aug 2009, 8:58am

With this change to "Local Member Groups" we have a divide and rule situation, probably to stop the more successful D.A.'s from getting too powerful. Our DA/Group still operates in the same way. It has been very successful in it's dealings with Local Authorities as was apparent at a recent meeting of Groups where most Groups reported poor results with L.A.'s.

Regarding websites for Member Groups, we have had a website for the past 8 years. It takes dedication and skill to maintain a website .I did it for nearly 8 years and was pleased to hand over to another member who is a software professional with a large international company. I have a great respect for him and the company he works for (and it's not MS). It involves a lot of work to keep a website up-to-date (renewing rides lists, rides reports etc.). Our site is http://www.ctc-cambridge.org.uk.

Data Protection does not mean that people within the organisation cannot have members details. When the Data Protection Act came in I had to register to hold customer records, as did a colleague (a solicitor with a legal firm). I stated who I would divulge information to and it was accepted. He had his rejected and had to apply again. When I was a Trade Union Branch Secretary I had all information on my Branch Members, because the registration was properly set up. I can only think that the CTC registration leaves a lot to be desired.

Edit
Additonally, In our area we have a Tuesday Senior Cyclists' Group which happily operates as an integral part of the Cambridge Cyclists' Touring Club Group. But one question which springs to mind is, Who gets the Capitation Grant. If an independent group gets their share how is it done. Do they get a grant in relation to their postcodes covered or for actual members in the group. This is something which no-one seems to have mentioned. If it is on the basis of actual members we would need to have a system of nominating which group you wished to belong to (like the Camping Club do).

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Simon L6
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Simon L6 » 30 Aug 2009, 7:03pm

Ellis - I'm intrigued by the idea that DAs might get too powerful. How would this be?

Simon

Karen Sutton
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Karen Sutton » 1 Sep 2009, 11:23pm

ellis rowell wrote: If an independent group gets their share how is it done. Do they get a grant in relation to their postcodes covered or for actual members in the group. This is something which no-one seems to have mentioned. If it is on the basis of actual members we would need to have a system of nominating which group you wished to belong to (like the Camping Club do).



South Manchester CTC (of which I am Membership Registrar) recently became an independent Member Group. The process of becoming independent from the old "DA" (Manchester & District CTC) and claiming the grant was as follows:

1. M & D CTC voted at their AGM for the postcode area boundaries for the two Member Groups.

2. South Manchester CTC (SMCTC) voted at their AGM to become an independent Member Group covering the postcode areas agreed with M & D CTC.

3. SMCTC provided a list of 10 member's signatures to CTC National Office for the formation of the Independent Member Group.

In this case it was approximately a 50/50 split in the grant as about 50% of the M & D CTC CTC members live in the South Manchester area.
With regard to which members we can claim for: SMCTC claim for the number of CTC members in their postcode area, not just those who ride with the group, just as it has always been; the grant has always been claimed for all CTC members, not just those active with a group.

As for as those who live outside a Member Group area who ride with the Group, these members can be listed with the Group they ride with. Adrian Lawson asked me to send him a list of members who rode with us who were on another list. I don't know if all groups have done this. I suppose we will have also have to notify someone of any new rider who is on a different list in the future.

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ellis rowell
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby ellis rowell » 2 Sep 2009, 11:53pm

Thanks for the info. Karen.

About the Data registration: Because of the apparent "Cock-up" with the original registration, we should make enquiries regarding re-registration and get it right this time (that all Officers of the Club and it's branches should have access to the database). This is the CTC not GCHQ.

George Riches
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby George Riches » 8 Sep 2009, 6:46pm

I'd like to support the proposition that National CTC should offer websites to member groups. Some groups don't have websites. Few of those who do maintain a level of technical quality approaching that of CTC-Cambridge.

It takes considerable skill to maintain software which can support user generated content (calendars, forums, blogs, photo galleries etc), but supporting it for a hundred groups can take little more effort than supporting it for one group. As long as there's a certain commonality between the websites, that they are on the same host, for example.

If National CTC provided these web services, member groups could provide the content (photos, runs lists, blog entry etc). Having a similar look and feel across the member groups webspaces would encourage greater networking between the member groups and give the CTC as a whole a greater web presence, without compromising the independence of the member groups - they could always link to their own webpages if required.

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Simon L6
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Simon L6 » 8 Sep 2009, 7:47pm

George Riches wrote:I'd like to support the proposition that National CTC should offer websites to member groups. Some groups don't have websites. Few of those who do maintain a level of technical quality approaching that of CTC-Cambridge.

It takes considerable skill to maintain software which can support user generated content (calendars, forums, blogs, photo galleries etc), but supporting it for a hundred groups can take little more effort than supporting it for one group. As long as there's a certain commonality between the websites, that they are on the same host, for example.

If National CTC provided these web services, member groups could provide the content (photos, runs lists, blog entry etc). Having a similar look and feel across the member groups webspaces would encourage greater networking between the member groups and give the CTC as a whole a greater web presence, without compromising the independence of the member groups - they could always link to their own webpages if required.
It's been suggested. Result - nothing. We've asked for a DA section in Newsnet - nothing. And how many times were DAs mentioned by the Chair and the Director at the AGM - 0

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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby George Riches » 8 Sep 2009, 9:17pm

Only a tiny minority of CTC members turn up at DA AGMs.
Isn't someone called Nick Fish looking at improving CTC's web based services?
Aren't some "Invitations to tender" (or something like that) being prepared for suppliers?

Karen Sutton
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby Karen Sutton » 8 Sep 2009, 9:25pm

Simon L6 wrote:
George Riches wrote: We've asked for a DA section in Newsnet - nothing. And how many times were DAs mentioned by the Chair and the Director at the AGM - 0


And yet CTC pledged support for the Groups when the new Member Group Guidelines were drawn up. There are staff employed to support the groups and to network the country to start new initiatives and ride groups. These staff are doing an excellent job, but Council is not supporting them as well as they might.

Adrian, the CTC Volunteer and Events Support Officer, came and spent a couple of days with South Manchester CTC recently. The purpose of the visit was to see how the Group was organised, chat with members at our Club Room to find out what they like about the Group. Adrian went on a mid week ride with some of our members as well. He also wanted to find out how National Office can best support and help our Group. We actually couldn't come up with ideas on how they could help us. We are very fortunate in that we have lots of members, and have new people joining on a regular basis. We have a large number of ride leaders and people volunteering to fill committee roles, and we have a fairly good website. (We know that most of our new members come via our website).

Yet there are obviously Groups who don't have all of this and they need more help. Adrian isn't going to be able to help all of them without some input from National Office and the type of input needed is local issues of News Net which can advertise events to members in the relevant areas, and a simple web space for those Groups without any. Hopefully if Adrian visits other Groups who need this support he will be able to put more pressure on the IT bods at National Office so that this support can be developed.

In the meantime, we are heading into the AGM season again. I can't help but wonder how many CTC Groups will take the decision to close down at their AGM this year. I know a few did last year. Those who were undecided in 2008 may have reached a decision to pack up this time round.

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ellis rowell
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Re: The CTC and its DAs/MGs - changes?

Postby ellis rowell » 13 Sep 2009, 11:18am

Karen Sutton wrote:
Simon L6 wrote:
George Riches wrote:

In the meantime, we are heading into the AGM season again. I can't help but wonder how many CTC Groups will take the decision to close down at their AGM this year. I know a few did last year. Those who were undecided in 2008 may have reached a decision to pack up this time round.


I too think that we may see some groups cease to exist. The group itself may still exist as an independent group (in effect forming their own club), this is nothing new. Breakaway groups have always happened, chiefly through younger members wanting to take part in racing and then affiliated to the NCU or BC. I think that the scene is different this time round, it's more likely to be the older members who will break away from oppressive bureaucracy. Especially those who are anti these new-fangled typing machines made possible by Alan Turing when they were kids.