CTC Membership Services

Anything relating to the clubs associated with Cycling UK
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1221
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 8:27pm
Location: Lancing, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby admin » 27 Jan 2010, 10:23pm

workhard wrote:This thread has got very long and complicated. Can't the 'high ups' mandate that a new board be created to facilitate discussion about the membership service standards? :twisted:


Nah, you've only got to eleven pages. Once you've hit 24 pages I might make a new board ;)

thirdcrank
Posts: 29719
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Jan 2010, 6:37pm

In the light of the suggestion that data protection has been used as an explanation for not supplying members' email addresses etc to DAs for the legitimate activities of the CTC - in this case organising group cycle rides and similar, it's a bit rich that the same data are now being used to try to shore up the charitification proposal.

I've been keeping a forlorn eye on my inbox. :(

==========================================================

Update - spoke too soon :lol: :lol: :lol:

Karen Sutton
Posts: 608
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:18pm
Location: Greater Manchester

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby Karen Sutton » 29 Jan 2010, 6:55pm

Yes, I got one from the North West Councillors today. Well they won't get my vote. Maybe they managed to get email addresses from somewhere other than the Member database? If they used the ones on there they wuldn't reach a big percentage of the members.

User avatar
robgul
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8 Jan 2007, 8:40pm
Contact:

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby robgul » 29 Jan 2010, 7:17pm

.... my e-mail addresses are "seeded" to be able to identify senders - I have replied to what I assume to be a "three line whip" e-mail asking how the individual that e-mailed me go my address ... we'll see what happens.

Perhaps Karen might cut and paste her message on this thread to see if it's the same as the message others have had.

Rob

User avatar
Yorkshireman
Posts: 352
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 6:59am
Location: North Hykeham, Lincoln.
Contact:

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby Yorkshireman » 29 Jan 2010, 8:45pm

Here's the one I received today
A message to CTC members in the East Midlands from John Catt your new CTC Council Member



I hope you will forgive the intrusion of this email following my election as one of the CTC Councillors for the East Midlands. Whilst it would be impossible for me to meet all the members in the region, I can be contacted by email and would welcome any comments you have about the work of the CTC. You will have to forgive me if I do not always respond immediately, like many of you I am a volunteer.



My main purpose in writing to on this occasion is about the main matter for discussion at our January Council Meeting which looked at the formalities involved in reuniting the CTC “Club” and the CTC “Charitable Trust”. This is to be achieved by the “Club” becoming a charity and then re-absorbing the assets of the Trust, so that we once again become a single body governed by the Council, as elected by members.



This involved Councillors scrutinising proposed changes to the Memorandum and Articles of Association which have to be updated to comply with the latest Company's Act as well as the requirements of the Charity Commissioners.



I perhaps have the distinct advantage over some of the other Councillors in that I have been able to come to the subject with a completely open mind and I have been able to spend quite a lot of time since my election in October assessing what has been going on, not only to satisfy myself but to make sure I could adequately represent CTC members in the east Midlands. I can now make it clear that my study of the subject has lead me to conclude that, beyond reasonable doubt, this is the correct course for the CTC going forward.



All but two of the Council agree with this and Council is urging members to support the necessary resolutions at the AGM. This is to be held in Loughborough, so many of you should be able to attend and cast your vote.



There is a group of members who oppose the merger, wishing to see the “Club” remain independent. They have a website where they set out their arguments at www.savethectc.org.uk . I have no doubt that these members are honourable, but I believe their concerns to be mistaken. The CTC has, I think, answered all the points raised in a special area of its website devoted to this matter which can be found at http://tr.im/LrZM and I have set out my thoughts in a blog at http://tr.im/LOPZ .



My conclusion is that there is nothing that we do at the moment, or that I can foresee the CTC and its members wanting to do, that it will not be able to take forward as a unified charity.



Opponents of the change have also suggested that Council members have a vested interest in changing to charitable status. Two of the advantages of charitable status that I have been able to identify should give you complete reassurance about my position:



a) the trustees of a charity (which is what the Councillors will become) are not entitled to any remuneration apart from out of pocket expenses;



b) the standards expected in law of charity trustees is higher than that required of company directors.



The suggestion has also been made that the accounts of the CTC hide a subsidy from the Club to the Charity to cover losses on contracts with government bodies, such as the “Cycle Champions” initiative. The income and expenditure accounts relating to these contracts has been vetted by our auditors, the bodies funding the contracts and some Council Members (including a member co-opted for his financial expertise) and all concluded that the contracts they examined had covered their costs and provided an income towards the finances of the CTC as a whole.



The accounts show that the “Club” made a donation to the “Trust” of £453K for the year ending 30/9/09. Whilst some describe this as a subsidy, it has to be appreciated that the Trust funded most of our campaigns, right to ride work, volunteer development and promotion (including the internet site), the total cost of which was £994K. The difference was covered from the resources available because of the financial opportunities and advantages open to the Trust as a charity.



Other points about various problems the CTC has had, such as with the membership system, have also been raised. I have yet to find an organisation that did not have its problems. Both council and staff are working hard to improve all aspects of the organisation and, whilst it will never be perfect, it will be easier to move forward without the administrative burden of maintaining and reporting on two separate organisations.



I believe it is vital that we become one again. If the “Club” were to be managed separately, as some seem to wish, then there could easily be a conflict of interest between Council members and the trustees of the Trust. Such problems would eventually, I believe, result in the organisations “divorcing”.



In my view we are much stronger united than divided and I urge you to vote, either at the AGM or by proxy vote, for the proposed changes.



Please feel free to let me know your questions or views



Good cycling.



John Catt



P.S. It is attached as a word document for printing.






________________________________________________________________________
CTC - the UK's national cyclists' organisation provides a comprehensive range of services, advice, events, and protection for its members.

CTC Charitable Trust, CTC's charity arm, works to promote cycling by raising public and political awareness of its health, social and environmental benefits, and by working with all communities to help realise those benefits.

To find out more, to join or support CTC visit www.ctc.org.uk, or phone 0844 736 8451.

Cyclists' Touring Club, a company limited by guarantee, registered in England number 25185.

CTC Charitable Trust, a company limited by guarantee, registered in England number 5125969. Registered as a charity in England and Wales number 1104324 and in Scotland number SCO38626

Registered office: Parklands, Railton Road, Guildford, GU2 9JX

This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by CTC. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk
________________________________________________________________________


I don't see anything there to persuade me that subscribing to a charity will be an advantage to me (I prefer to be a member of the CTC).
Colin N.
Lincolnshire is mostly flat ... but the wind is mostly in your face!
http://www.freewebs.com/yorkshireman1/

User avatar
robgul
Posts: 2964
Joined: 8 Jan 2007, 8:40pm
Contact:

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby robgul » 29 Jan 2010, 8:52pm

This is the message I got .... I did ask where the bloke got my personal e-mail address from ..... the mail was from an individual (not the CTC) that had obviously been given my e-mail address .... that's not right.

========================================

Dear CTC member

I am writing to you as one of your two elected CTC representatives in the West Midlands to tell you my position in relation to CTC’s future direction, as discussed in this month’s edition of Cycle magazine.

-Your copy of Cycle should be with you this weekend

-- I am writing to urge you to look very carefully at the debate on proposals for a unified membership charity. David Cox my fellow West Midlands Councillor puts the 'Yes' case. The 'No' case is put by Simon Legg a former Councillor.

- I hope you will support the proposals for a unified membership charity when you get the opportunity to vote in April. This was supported by 17 National Councillors at the October Council meeting with only 1 against.

-Simon Legg refers to the running of the existing Charitable Trust as 'chaotic’ and that Council has not kept tabs on finances. He alleges that the Club has propped up the Trust.

-These allegations are not true. Management Committee (our oversight committee) , which I chaired for 4 years until a year ago, always looked rigorously at the accounts and membership processes before referring to National Council for approval. During his time on Council Simon did not oppose approval.

-The CTC group now has £1m in reserves and makes an annual surplus. During my 7 years on CTC Council our finances have become stronger, we have increased our membership to record levels and our campaigners have made Government retreat on proposed changes to the Highway Code which would have adversely affected cyclists.

-Many of the activities of the Club have been transferred to the Trust so there have been payments from Club to Trust but these costs would have been incurred anyway.

-The CTC Honorary Financial Adviser together with the current Management Committee chair, a former HMRC Tax Inspector, has looked at a sample of the projects we carry out with grants from public bodies. They found that these generated surpluses so there is no disbenefit to Club members.

-It is acknowledged that there have been problems with our Membership system but these have largely been overcome. With 60,000 members and various categories of membership there will always be some problems but we believe that we compare well with other organisations. When CTC started to grow significantly 10 years ago it was clear we could not create the capital to run a full call centre and mailing house to the standard you would expect. We have openly acknowledged that we had a serious problem some 4 years ago. Our previous contractor did not deliver what they had contracted to do so we terminated the contract and received compensation of £30,000. We also recovered our data. It is worth noting that we dealt with the problem a year before the contractor's owners (NFU) had to call in external auditors who found a £1m hole in their finances. Credit must be given to the Director and the Operations Manager who had more control over CTC’s records and finances than the contractor’s own organisation had. This is not an organisation that is poorly managed or in chaos.

-And while we have been managing CTC it is worth pointing out that we are now involved in delivering services to public bodies because these are helping to promote the cause of cycling, which is something that we believe members want us to do. CTC has reached out into the community and raised our profile but more importantly we are involving many more people outside our normal membership profile than ever.

-Our previous Council Chair, Jill Kieran, led the membership review of local groups, the first for 30 years. The changes introduced about 3 years ago have led to the creation of many new groups without affecting the healthy existing DA's.

-National Council has a wide range of experience and skills which have been utilised in developing the proposals which are to be considered at the AGM at Loughborough. I hope that you will be able to attend but if not please use your proxy vote to support the motion.

-Remember that the proposed new charity will absorb the existing Charitable Trust; Members will still be in control and elect the governing body.

-More details are available on the website. Find the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section and settle down to some serious reading.

Good Cycling

Peter Mathison

National Councillor for West Midlands

28 January 2010



P.S. It is attached as a word document for printing.

thirdcrank
Posts: 29719
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Jan 2010, 9:21pm

We Yorkshirement are reknowned for dour brevity (all except me that is :oops: )

Dear Member,

In the latest addition of Cycle there appears an article by Simon Legg who was asked to present the No case for CTC becoming a charity and then merging with our subsidiary company CTC Charitable Trust. However, Simon has taken the opportunity to make and infer a whole series of unsubstantiated criticisms which are not relevant to the charity issue.

As your CTC Councillor for Yorkshire and Humber I feel it my duty to refute his misinterpretations. Please find attached above my more detailed response.



Councils full arguments for CTC becoming a charity are to be found as FAQs at: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5364 .


Yours faithfully,


Arthur Spurr.

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby meic » 29 Jan 2010, 9:43pm

I cant see why our councilors shouldnt have our email addresses.

I would expect head office to give my email address to both my local CTC group and councilor. Afterall if you dont know what they are thinking, how do you know if they are representing you?
Yma o Hyd

thirdcrank
Posts: 29719
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Jan 2010, 10:29pm

meic wrote:I cant see why our councilors shouldnt have our email addresses. ...


I agree with you, but it's suggested somewhere higher up the thread that data protection has been quoted as a reason for member groups not having the info. Sauce, goose, gander.

User avatar
Simon L6
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4 Jan 2007, 12:43pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby Simon L6 » 29 Jan 2010, 11:28pm

I think it's entirely appropriate for CTC Councillors to get in touch with members. If only they'd do it more often - or give local groups the wherewithal to get in touch with members.

I would say this in answer to Peter Mathison's point. Every year I asked Council to consider appointing new auditors. Over time I became more and more sceptical about the accounts, and, in particular, the relationship between the Trust and the Club. I'd still be interested in knowing why the £388,000 'loan' popped in to the accounts last year, and when it might be repaid........

glueman
Posts: 4354
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 1:22pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby glueman » 29 Jan 2010, 11:32pm

Thirdcrank, Arthur Spurr's attachment was far less succinct on the matter. Robust might be a better description. I can't find a way of cutting and pasting it to the board, perhaps you can?

thirdcrank
Posts: 29719
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby thirdcrank » 29 Jan 2010, 11:37pm

glueman wrote:Thirdcrank, Arthur Spurr's attachment was far less succinct on the matter. Robust might be a better description. I can't find a way of cutting and pasting it to the board, perhaps you can?


Your wish is my command

Dear Member,

I’m your member of CTC Council representing Yorkshire and Humber; I write to tell you that much of what is purported as fact in the Cycle Magazine article by Simon Legg is, hearsay and innuendo that does not stand up to close scrutiny!

I have a 30 year background of serving the voluntary sector as a volunteer committee member. This has included both local and national charities and not-for-profit organisations on a large scale. I donate my time, skills and integrity to CTC Council freely, having done so for 6 years.

Simon was invited by CTC Council to write opposing Council’s forthcoming recommendation that the Club become a registered charity by approving resolutions at the May AGM. However, the opportunity has been taken to present numerous misrepresentations. While I welcome free speech, I can assure you that CTC is neither, loosing money or in chaos. I deeply deplore these suggestions which are it seems being spread to serve the ambitions of a London based minority. Truth must surely come before propaganda.

Simon is in total error when he says that there is a proposal for CTC (the Club) to be taken over by the CTC Charitable Trust, the exact opposite is the case.

The recommendation of CTC Council is that CTC (the Club) becomes, (through modification of its governing Memorandum and Articles) a registered charity, and then is merged with its subsidiary CTC Charitable Trust. Thus preserving and extending CTC democratic traditions of governance to a unified organisation. The proposal is not a whim and has involved much professional advice and Member consultation. It involves you, in that all CTC Members have the right to a vote by proxy at the forthcoming AGM.

Some of Simon’s article is laudable, we all want to promote fellowship between cyclists and CTC wants to be able to represent the interests of all cyclists as effectively as it can. There remains much work to be done particularly in the spheres of building local Member Groups and being closer to our Right to Ride Network. Policies are beginning to move in that direction but it will take time, resources and commitment all round.

It is easy to make criticism of past and present performance without reference to the realities of the time. For example, when I joined Council we were in the midst of Foot and Mouth, membership was falling, money was tight, the circumstances in Godalming were not for efficiency, but there was a determination to try and build the organisation for the longer term. A strategy was devised that sought to promote cycling for all, upon which we are moving forward with a wide range of success. We now have a much higher profile evidenced by media coverage, higher membership, increasing campaigning strength, and importantly we’re demonstrating what cycling can do for health and society generally. We are shortly to improve our web communications.

We all know the frustrations of our cause, but withdrawing to our shell isn’t what these circumstances demand, we have to engage with people and organisations in new ways to get our message across. Simon’s approach would undermine and narrow the path of our progress diminishing respect for CTC. Being a Society of 3rd Party Insured Cyclists, active at the weekend or as lone cyclists, just won’t do it! Our seeking only to be part of the transport lobby would clearly be myopic, cyclists aren’t physically engineered they’re educated so!

Accusations are made by Simon on CTC’s finances, baldly asserting that Member subscriptions are “propping up” externally funded projects. This is not true and gross misrepresentation! CTC the Club and CTC Charitable Trust are in a symbiotic relationship that is financially advantageous to the Club. Some of our “traditional” activities, like campaigning, are undertaken by the Trust for which the Club “pays” by a donation; similarly, some services are provided to the Trust by the Club, invoiced and paid for. This system of donation and recharges produces tax efficiencies within a demarcation of funds. It is the policy of Council that Member funds are not used to support externally funded projects within the Trust. The Trusts externally sourced income produces healthy surpluses which reduce the donations made by the Club, thus leaving more reserves within Member funds. To assure Members on this point, three CTC Councillors each possessing accountancy qualifications and each with extensive professional experience, have recently undertaken a hands on review and reported to Council on the integrity of our finances. Simon Legg’s assertions are baseless and refuted!

The picture is painted of a membership system in chaos. Whilst there have been errors and it is accepted that the change to Member Groups has not run as smoothly as hoped, an independent review commissioned of Membership Services performance indicates that they are now within industry standards. Yes, there have been errors, yes staff aren’t as 100% perfectly consistent as we all would like, and they’re only human. Simon offers no solutions just the negatives. What did he do when a Member of CTC Council? I can’t recall much of a practical contribution, in this he is consistent?

Yes, we have cycling wisdom, yes we have long traditions, we are a democratic club and will remain so whether a charity or not, we don’t want to be as Sustrans. There’s a need to bring cycling people together; we are national; our view of the world really does extend outside of Simon’s London; to the English Regions, to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Since the 2006 Charities Act the way is open for CTC (the Club) to become a charity, which will improve our standing not restrain us in our quest for a cycling society. It re-affirms our democracy, and should secondarily help improve our finances through Gift Aid.

I hope you will join me and support the progress that is being made and in CTC becoming a registered charity; rather than take the negative view that has held CTC and cycling back for too long. I regret having to write to you in these terms but rebuttal is necessary.

Councils full arguments for CTC becoming a charity are to be found as FAQ at: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5364 .


Arthur Spurr.
CTC Councillor Yorkshire and Humber

glueman
Posts: 4354
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 1:22pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby glueman » 29 Jan 2010, 11:45pm

Thank you. The urge to comment is almost irresistible, but resist I shall.

User avatar
meic
Posts: 19355
Joined: 1 Feb 2007, 9:37pm
Location: Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen)

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby meic » 29 Jan 2010, 11:56pm

"There’s a need to bring cycling people together; we are national; our view of the world really does extend outside of Simon’s London; to the English Regions, to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland."

and somewhere else I saw reference to the "metropolitan" rable rousers or something similar.

I believe Wales has just the one councilor and he is about as rural as I am.

It isnt just Simon who says no, it seems* that for once the Welsh member groups and Londoners may actually be united on an issue.

but it doesnt set a precedent. :D

*I am only going on what I have heard from those who I have spoken to, it may be that that sample is unrepresentative but they are not Londoners or even Metropolitan.
Yma o Hyd

glueman
Posts: 4354
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 1:22pm

Re: CTC Membership Services

Postby glueman » 30 Jan 2010, 10:54am

It was me who wrote the 'metropolitan rabble rousers' thing. It was in response to Arthur's post which seemed to stop just short of 'them fancy London ways'.
The ball is now in his court to match London's growth and diversity in Yorkshire and Humberside.

edit: I'm in rural Yorkshire BTW.