What's happening to DA's?

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Malpas
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What's happening to DA's?

Postby Malpas » 29 Oct 2012, 3:24pm

Given that the term DA is disallowed by the CTC what's happened/happening to them? Are they just disbanding as they would seem to serve no purpose with the new CTC organization or are some reinventing themselves with a new title and changed/refocused functions?
I ask as the CTC CEO is strangely attending our "DA " (sorry, that's what it calls itself) agm. So some wider information/insights from others would be handy.
I guess he might tell us to go home ,we're wasting our time,whilst that might be fun and educational for some if not most of the "membership", I suspect he wont.

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Si
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby Si » 29 Oct 2012, 3:42pm

Our DA disappeared a few years back....mainly due to lack of interest. There was plenty of interest in the MGs that made it up but we seem to have lost any reason for inter-section activity. It's a pity but we've only really ourselves to blame I guess. Indeed, a couple of the local MGs have now absorbed others and so where we were once a DA of small Sections we are now an area with fewer but (some) larger MGs (or Sections if you count in old money).

Which reminds me - there was an attempt to create Regions a while back but it came to nothing as the political landscape changes and so the benefits that it would have brought were lost.....but the CTC still owes me money for the work I did on it :evil:

Sorry, didn't answer your question did I? From reading this page ( http://beta.ctc.org.uk/local-groups/wha ... ber-groups ) and the one it links to about forming a new group, I get the impression that "DA"s don't seem to exist any more, only MGs.

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gaz
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby gaz » 29 Oct 2012, 8:31pm

Malpas wrote:Given that the term DA is disallowed by the CTC what's happened/happening to them?


The Policy Handbook for CTC Member Groups and Organising Committees is a little like the Highway Code in that it has equivalents to MUST and SHOULD
Terms used in this handbook

Must/Mandatory
An essential requirement for Groups to conform with the policies of CTC Council or other regulation.

Recommend
This has been used to describe a way of operating that is considered most effective but is not mandatory. If Groups do not adopt recommendations Group committees should at minimum be aware of the recommendation and their reasons for not adopting them.

Guidelines
Guidelines are to help Groups in their day to day operating and their use is optional. There will be a much wider range of guidance to complement the Policy handbook in the supporting toolkit we are developing.

May
Offers Groups a choice whether a policy is adopted or not.

....
Group Title or Area
....
Titles
....
d) Council recommends that groups no longer use the titles “District Association” or “Section”.

I was coming to the end of my dablings in "DA" politics around the time that the "DA/Section" to "Formal/Informal" Member Group changes came about and my recollection is that at the time this was very much presented as the terms "DA" and "Section" MUST not be used. However it would appear that technically a member group could still be a "DA" so long as it's full name also conforms to all the other naming criteria in the Policy Handbook. :wink:

Malpas wrote:Are they just disbanding as they would seem to serve no purpose with the new CTC organization or are some reinventing themselves with a new title and changed/refocused functions?


Again, as I became much less active in my own "DA" (West Kent) around the time, my knowledge of what happened may be a little shaky.

West Kent "DA" ran a series of medal events, socials, BAR contest, rallies, clubroom and all manner of other things. It had a dozen or more "Sections", some geographical, some by mileage/pace. The "DA" produced and circulated a bi-monthly Runs List covering the activities of all it's sections, events, etc. To my knowledge at least one (perhaps two) of the geographical Sections held their own funds in their own bank accounts and a few others had a nominal "kitty".

Initially the "Section" that had it's own funds may/may not have decided to become a Formal sub-Group (I have heard conflicting reports second-hand). The last time I could access the information on the National Office website with regard to "Sections", there were no "Formal" sub-groups within West Kent "DA" and it appeared on the "Informal" group list. The "DA"'s 2012 AGM report confirms that there are no "Formal" sub groups. Nevertheless that particular section continues to have a Treasurer, hold an AGM, produce a Runs List, host events, and has no named Welfare Officer on it's committee. Every other "Section" definitely went "Infomal" from the outset.

Another geographic "Section" decided a few years after the changes that it would become "Formal" and left the DA (AFAIK amicably) in the process.

Malpas wrote:I ask as the CTC CEO is strangely attending our "DA " (sorry, that's what it calls itself) agm. So some wider information/insights from others would be handy. I guess he might tell us to go home ,we're wasting our time,whilst that might be fun and educational for some if not most of the "membership", I suspect he wont.


So in summary IMO my "DA" no longer uses the term "DA" externally but it remains commonplace internally. It continues to provide the "Formal" Member Group committee structure. The various "Informal" Member Groups report in, almost all being too small to organise their own committees. I think it is largely (and almost certainly incorrectly) seen as "business as usual" at both levels. It continues to run a series of medal events, socials, BAR contest, rallies, clubroom and all manner of other things.

This years AGM report reads pretty much the same as those from the last 25 years or so.

Whilst saying largely it would be fair to add that the "DA" committee has adopted the relevant structure and slimmed down considerably. AFAIK membership data is treated appropriately and not made available to "Informal" member group secretaries.
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gaz
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby gaz » 28 Feb 2013, 7:24pm

2012 Member Group Policy Handbook is now available.

Group Title and Area of Operation
Title
...
• Groups must no longer use words such as ‘District Association’ or ‘Section’ in their titles as these terms are now redundant.


That's an end to that then.
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TimP
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby TimP » 12 Jul 2015, 5:55pm

gaz wrote:2012 Member Group Policy Handbook is now available.

Group Title and Area of Operation
Title
...
• Groups must no longer use words such as ‘District Association’ or ‘Section’ in their titles as these terms are now redundant.


That's an end to that then.


Yet no suggestion of acceptable terms and formats? Strangely negative view on things.

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Si
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby Si » 12 Jul 2015, 6:06pm

The acceptable term is "Member Group" hence the title of the hand book: "Member Group Policy Handbook" :wink:

PH
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby PH » 12 Jul 2015, 6:56pm

TimP wrote:
gaz wrote:2012 Member Group Policy Handbook is now available.

Group Title and Area of Operation
Title
...
• Groups must no longer use words such as ‘District Association’ or ‘Section’ in their titles as these terms are now redundant.


That's an end to that then.


Yet no suggestion of acceptable terms and formats? Strangely negative view on things.


It's an old thread you've dug up Tim, but the Handbook seems to have plenty og guidence as to what groups should call themselves
• The title of all Groups must include ‘CTC’. The only exemption to this policy is where Groups exist solely to carry out cycle touring activities, in which case the title ‘Cyclists' Touring Club’ may be used.

• The title should normally be written with CTC at the end, for example Kidderminster CTC rather than CTC Kidderminster.

• Any other defining titles that help members and the public identify the scope of the Group’s activities may be added.



My local DA had just gone through this about the time this thread started and I was unsure how it'd all work out. I think the answer is for the better, What was Derby DA (Derby, Alfreton and Burton) became CTC Derby & Burton as a formal group, CTC Derby and CTC Burton as informal groups and Alfreton CTC as a formal group with no ties to the others. The result is the Derby and Burton groups have become closer, with far more shared activities and Alfreton have been able to follow their own program without being encumbered by the DA structure.
I don't think it's ever been easier to start a CTC group, formal or informal, you're no longer restricted by geographical boundaries and you don't need to get the permission of any committee. The flat rate allocation grant is also probably more useful to a newly started group than an established one.
If there is an argument to be had with National Office it's about the favorable terms for affiliated members. Where Member groups have to tell potential recruits that after three rides they have to fork out £43 to continue, Affiliated clubs can let them ride as long as they like and offer them membership for less than half the price, yet National Office to a large extent treat them both the same. Although NO claim otherwise it seems a policy to encourage member Groups to disband and reform as affiliated clubs, something several have already done.

www.derbyctc.org.uk

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gaz
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby gaz » 12 Jul 2015, 7:05pm

Except when National Office wants to call them District Associations. :wink:

e.g.

When you want to Volunteer as a Right to Ride representative.
What contact do you have with your CTC District Association (DA); ... ?:
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 6 Oct 2015, 11:37am

I tend to forget that there used to be District Associations and Sections. I suppose the DAs must have filled some necessary or useful administrative role, but to me the main interaction with the CTC is riding with a group of people I know – I suppose that's the equivalent of the old Section. So it makes no immediate tangible difference.

TerryJones
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby TerryJones » 8 Oct 2015, 3:00pm

For me, the CTC shot itself in BOTH feet a long time ago. I believe it is yet another organisation that exists purely for the benefit of its employees and not the members. Some will disagree, but that's how I see it. The CTC should have been put out of its misery years ago.
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beardy
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby beardy » 8 Oct 2015, 3:48pm

Well, we are using a forum which is under their name and support.

JohnW
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Re: What's happening to DA's?

Postby JohnW » 13 Oct 2015, 10:45pm

TerryJones wrote:For me, the CTC shot itself in BOTH feet a long time ago. I believe it is yet another organisation that exists purely for the benefit of its employees and not the members. Some will disagree, but that's how I see it. The CTC should have been put out of its misery years ago.


I take it that you're not a member then.