Heart of England, what's going on?

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PH
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Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby PH » 31 Jul 2015, 12:58pm

I see from the latest edition of Cycle that CTC Heart of England are holding a meeting to vote on dissolving. This seems to be a reasonably successful group so it came as a bit of a surprise. As they are also organisers of the Meriden weekend, I wonder what the plans are for this? So I'm curious as to what's going on. I know some Member Groups have dissolved and new affiliated clubs formed, something that is of interest to me, the pros and cons.

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robgul
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby robgul » 31 Jul 2015, 1:20pm

Your last sentence is apposite.

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Si
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby Si » 31 Jul 2015, 1:38pm

Not only the HoE looking at this.

For instance another thriving local MG....loads of members, loads of rides, socials, events, etc....but the chair is retiring and no one has stepped forward to take on the office. Under CTC rules a MG must have a Chair, but an Affiliated Group need not.

The down sides:
- after over 100 years of history the group folds a a CTC MG (although is it that different from going from being a Section to an MG?)
- no longer get the payment from N.O. for each member in the area
- no longer get the update about new members in the area
- costs about £70 per year

The upsides:
- don't need official officers so people who just wanna ride can do so
- the ride leaders are still insured to lead (as long as they are identified to N.O.)
- they weren't that bothered about the payment for each member in the area anyway as their money mainly came from putting on events
- the list of CTC members in the area often caused more annoyance than benefit as it was unreliable.
- no more Rule OF Five or however many it is now....anyone can come on a ride.

Thus it boils down to this: a simple name change (removal of "CTC" and replacement with something like "Cycling"), all the rides continue as they were, less red tape. Got to fork out £70 which is about £3 per member.

The alternative is that the MG just fails, the faster/middling riders go off with the local successful sportif type club (also a CTC affiliate, which is venturing into family rides too), and the older members are left to (using someone else's harsh but realistic words) "wither away naturally".

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby gaz » 31 Jul 2015, 2:19pm

By the letter of the Handbook the dissolving MG should return all assets (cash in bank, trophies, stocks of club clothing, etc) to National Office.

Dissolution of Groups
...
CTC will take possession of all property, funds and financial assets of such Groups.
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby Si » 31 Jul 2015, 2:24pm

Oh yes, thanks Gaz, that's the one I forgot...but there are ways around that.

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby gaz » 31 Jul 2015, 4:09pm

Sounds complicated, best not tell me about it or I might end up quoting other bits of the handbook :wink: .

Edit: Robgul told me about it, or more accurately he posted a link to the process on the HoECC website. Interesting read, especially the transfer of MG assets.

Since Council have to agree to the winding up of a MG (says so in the Handbook :wink: ), if they'd had any concerns they would have raised them at the time.
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby PH » 31 Jul 2015, 8:31pm

I'm not surprised. It seems to be the way a lot of MGs are thinking, I have no idea what NO are doing, I've long suspected that they'd rather have affiliated clubs and members rather than MGs and full members who feel the club belongs to them. When I suggested this in an earlier thread, gaz linked to something from a committee meeting that refuted it, but their actions couldn't be better aimed at encouraging it.
In Si's pros and cons, he missed out to the huge cost difference between being a full member and an affiliated one, with the latest increase that's £25 a year. The allocation grant hasn't been dependent on local numbers for some years, it's currently a flat £200 per group.
The loss to me would be not only all that history but the tradition that goes with it. My local MG, CTC Derby & Burton, are still very much a touring club, the riding groups and sections within it have changed over the years, some coming to an end, others starting. Luckily there's always been enough enthusiastic people to keep it going. I think all successful clubs are dependent on a few dedicated people making things happen, and I've seen clubs change when the interests of those few people change, in a way that I don't think a CTC group would.
Is there debate within HoE or is it pretty much seen as a done deal? I suppose without anyone coming forward as Chair there's little choice. I do find that a little odd, I don't see how the organisation of an affiliated club is going to be much easier and I never thought the position of Chair was that onerous.

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby robgul » 31 Jul 2015, 8:49pm

PH wrote:snip

Is there debate within HoE or is it pretty much seen as a done deal? I suppose without anyone coming forward as Chair there's little choice. I do find that a little odd, I don't see how the organisation of an affiliated club is going to be much easier and I never thought the position of Chair was that onerous.


On a point of clarity - the lack of a Chairman (a chair is for sitting on!) stepping up to the plate relates to the MG that Si refers to in his post - not to CTC HoE.

Rob

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby PH » 31 Jul 2015, 8:56pm

robgul wrote:
PH wrote:snip

Is there debate within HoE or is it pretty much seen as a done deal? I suppose without anyone coming forward as Chair there's little choice. I do find that a little odd, I don't see how the organisation of an affiliated club is going to be much easier and I never thought the position of Chair was that onerous.


On a point of clarity - the lack of a Chairman (a chair is for sitting on!) stepping up to the plate relates to the MG that Si refers to in his post - not to CTC HoE.

Rob


So, is there debate within HoE?

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby robgul » 3 Aug 2015, 3:25pm

A News item was published on 1 August (to coincide with the Cycle magazine notice) at www.ctc-heartofengland.org.uk - A new beginning.

Rob

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby mjr » 3 Aug 2015, 3:54pm

robgul wrote:A News item was published on 1 August (to coincide with the Cycle magazine notice) at http://www.ctc-heartofengland.org.uk - A new beginning.

So, is there debate within HoE?
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby robgul » 3 Aug 2015, 4:03pm

mjr wrote:
robgul wrote:A News item was published on 1 August (to coincide with the Cycle magazine notice) at http://www.ctc-heartofengland.org.uk - A new beginning.

So, is there debate within HoE?


Have you read the News item?

The dissolution process is quite clear as laid down by CTC - there is an EGM with the proposal, the only item on the agenda.

Rob

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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby mjr » 3 Aug 2015, 5:01pm

robgul wrote:Have you read the News item?

Yes. Have you read the question? That news item doesn't seem to say anything about any debate about it that's currently happening. It looks like it's being presented "as a done deal" to use the words above.

The dissolution process is quite clear as laid down by CTC - there is an EGM with the proposal, the only item on the agenda.

What's that got to do with whether there's currently debate within HoE CTC? If the EGM is a meeting with a real substantive debate and not just a committee defending its proposal with so many votes given to the chairman that there's little prospect of a defeat, then that's a rare thing which I hope will continue into the new club!
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby gaz » 3 Aug 2015, 7:47pm

IME the people who have Volunteered to be on the Committee tend to be those who get the work done and keep the club running. The other members (who partake of the group's activities) are grateful (mostly :wink: ) of the work that they do and rarely seek to rock the boat.

If the shift to an affiliated group has been presented broadly as "business as usual" but with a little less red-tape and aggravation for the Committee then what's not to like?

The likelihood of CTC members who don't partake in the group's activities taking a sudden interest and turning up to vote is slim.

Nevertheless the Handbook says:
All CTC members are able to attend and vote at any General Meeting of any CTC Member Group on presentation of a valid CTC membership card.

So if enough members (even if they have nothing to do with HoE CTC) turn up and still feel it should stay in the fold .....

Back in 2012 I came across a report of a DA dissolving (I don't recall which one and the links are now broken). It took only 25 of the DA's 1223 members to approve this course of action. 2% of the eligible voters (at the time members could only vote within their own geographic DA). Funds were distributed to the DA's former sections (presumably self-governing MGs at that stage).
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Re: Heart of England, what's going on?

Postby Dennis_Snape » 3 Aug 2015, 8:33pm

In answer to MJR's point regarding HoE debate. There has been much debate within HoE, going back a long, long time before I called the Special Committee Meeting to discuss this single issue in May. All of our committee ride, listen to and talk to our regulars every single week. Our regulars have been consulted with a great deal and of course there will be further debate at the EGM. There is no hidden agenda or even a 'committee defending its proposals' here .....we are just trying to do what will give us the best chance of survival. I first rode with this club in the 70's, as did my Grandfather before me. I don't want it to ever go under.......... and certainly not on my watch.