Andrew Mills wrote: there should not be any exclusive member group, CTC rides are inclusive not exclusive.
Andrew Mills secretary CTC Norfolk
In principle I agree with that Andrew. Some of my most enjoyable cycling has been with DA sections but only the largest can hope to provide real inclusivity. Allowing grass roots groups to emerge with their own enthusiasms and identity has to be a good thing especially as it doesn't tread on DA toes. I suspect the few sections who are put out will be those who aren't catering for the sort of riding member groups would typically want anyway. Which kind of proves the need for member groups.
What is apparent is the confusion over the new initiative. I hope it gets the publicity it deserves.
I think the above illustrates that member groups can be exclusive. In fact there already are member groups who are for specific types of riding, like ladies only groups, family groups, etc.
there should not be any exclusive member group, CTC rides are inclusive not exclusive.
I wait to see how membership will handle the new system as they can't handle the old one!
Andrew Mills secretary CTC Norfolk
Sorry Andrew but I think if a group of (for example) lady CTC members want to set up their own ladies CTC group they should be able to. Surely you couldn't object to that. After all, there are existing CTC groups who exclude ladies (and men sometimes), simply by riding off and leaving them. It is worse to accept someone on a ride and then dump them in the middle of nowhere than to exclude them (politely) in the first place. The important thing is getting people cycling, not dictating who they must allow to ride with them.
I am just stating CTC policy
a member group may have a ladies section and or a family section but as I understand the new and for that matter the old policy a DA or member group can't and shouldn't be exclusive.
All rides that are listed as CTC rides and covered by CTC insurance are open to all exept unacompanied children ( for legal Reasons). If they are exclusive rides ie Ladies only they have to listed as an event and there is different paperwork and requirements for these. The reasons for these differences are so the CTC is covered both legaly and for the insurance.
I have no problem with anyone riding with who ever they want, I just have to try and make sure that the rides that we organise in Norfolk are within CTC policy so that the group and the leader are covered if anything ever goes wrong on a ride.
To set up a member group you need at least four people to do six committee jobs thats the biggest issue for those considereing setting up a new group. Especialy as no one knows what the post of welfare officer intails?
We in Swansea Members' Group changed from being a DA to a members' group before this thread was even started.
If it has made any difference, I have not noticed.
If there is any difference, I dont understand it!
It would be very unusual if we in West Wales were doing anything in advance of the rest of the country as we are normally about 20 yrs behind.
I am also a member of Carmarthen Wheelers who are only affiliated to the CTC. We did try to find out from CTC if we could be given insurance cover for our events by joining in the members' group. We did not understand the answer so we gave up on the idea. So the plan looks good to those on the inside but is incomprehensible to those on the outside. So that is where we (Carmarthen Wheelers) are staying. Outside the CTC.
meic wrote:I am also a member of Carmarthen Wheelers who are only affiliated to the CTC. We did try to find out from CTC if we could be given insurance cover for our events by joining in the members' group.
Affiliated clubs are entitled to the Organiser's Liability Insurance, (which CTC Member groups have), to cover their event organisers and ride leaders. There is no need to be involved with a Member group to get this.
You only have to register those who need the cover with CTC. Contact Alexandra Geen:
So if I and some friends want to get together from around the country to (tri)cycle camp on our recumbent trikes. So long as we all are CTC members, which we are, we will benefit from ride cover?
(I'm already on the approved leaders list for our DA.)
Yes, if you are a registered leader with CTC you have Organiser's Liability Insurance cover. CTC Member Groups get this cover free. Independent clubs can pay for affiliation and then register their leaders/organisers as part of the affiliation package. The cost of affiliation varies depending on how many members the affiliated club has.
Karen Sutton wrote:Yes, if you are a registered leader with CTC you have Organiser's Liability Insurance cover.
You only have this cover while on a listed CTC ride that you are listed as leading.
In Bygad's case he and his friends are covered by their third party cover as CTC members nothing more. I would suggest they all take out multi trip or annual cover which as fairly cheap and avalible from most insurers. (check the small print on whats covered)
by listed I mean your local rides list in your magazine and or on your website.
Now that we are all member-groups rather than DAs and Sections, those member-groups that used to be Sections of member-groups that used to be DAs: are they still part of that larger member-group (sub-member-groups of an uber-member-group?) or are all now ment to be independent?
More questions: Will the CTC be publicising the idea of MGs? As DAs have been the CTC's 'club rides' for so long, establishing a new, section independent network might need a column in Cycle. As other people have noted, a specialist group (rough stuff campers? women with kids?) might attract inter regional support.
There appears to be some confusion about the potential for Member Groups even within the club.
Now that we are all member-groups rather than DAs and Sections, those member-groups that used to be Sections of member-groups that used to be DAs: are they still part of that larger member-group (sub-member-groups of an uber-member-group?) or are all now ment to be independent?
No, the old 'Sections' can still be part of the old hierarchy where they are part of the larger group (the old DA). In Manchester all of our Sections (now Member Groups) have opted to remain part of Manchester & District CTC, (previously Manchester DA). This means that all the Member Groups' accounts can be submitted to National Office together. We send all our year end reports together as well. However if Member Groups wish they can be completely independent and communicate directly with National Office.
Karen Sutton wrote:Yes, if you are a registered leader with CTC you have Organiser's Liability Insurance cover.
You only have this cover while on a listed CTC ride that you are listed as leading. In Bygad's case he and his friends are covered by their third party cover as CTC members nothing more. I would suggest they all take out multi trip or annual cover which as fairly cheap and avalible from most insurers. (check the small print on whats covered)
by listed I mean your local rides list in your magazine and or on your website.
I'm sorry I got this wrong. I read byegad's post incorrectly; because he mentioned being listed on his DAs Organiser's Liability register I took it to mean that he was asking about CTC rides. Andrew is quite correct, the event or ride must be listed as a CTC event. however I understand that it is not 100% mandatory that a particular person must be named on the listing. This is because if a leader is named on a rides list or whatever, then is unable to do it due to illness or other circumstances, then another Registered leader or organiser may take over.
glueman wrote:More questions: Will the CTC be publicising the idea of MGs? As DAs have been the CTC's 'club rides' for so long, establishing a new, section independent network might need a column in Cycle. As other people have noted, a specialist group (rough stuff campers? women with kids?) might attract inter regional support. There appears to be some confusion about the potential for Member Groups even within the club.
If any of you are going to the Local Group's Conference in Derby on 23rd/24th February you could ask these questions. I am trying to get there but only heard about it yesterday so it's difficult to get childcare etc sorted out now. Maybe someone who does get there could raise these issues and post the responses here afterwards?
However a little bit is being put in Cycle about new Member Groups. In the events listing in the latest issue you will see various events entitled "Meet to form Member Group". I think there is one in Glasgow, and there are others.
Now that we are all member-groups rather than DAs and Sections, those member-groups that used to be Sections of member-groups that used to be DAs: are they still part of that larger member-group (sub-member-groups of an uber-member-group?) or are all now ment to be independent?
No, the old 'Sections' can still be part of the old hierarchy where they are part of the larger group (the old DA). In Manchester all of our Sections (now Member Groups) have opted to remain part of Manchester & District CTC, (previously Manchester DA). This means that all the Member Groups' accounts can be submitted to National Office together. We send all our year end reports together as well. However if Member Groups wish they can be completely independent and communicate directly with National Office.
Thanks for the info Karen - our section has been in a bit of a state of flux - wonder which would be most advantageous considering that most of the DA benefits that we had interms of inter-group events seem to being dissappearing.
