Wahoo Elemnt

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Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 20 Sep 2018, 9:40pm

ibbo68 wrote:Since releasing the 800 Garmin seem to release units that aren't ready then think releasing firmware patches make it OK(again look on Garmin users Forum).I prefer a unit that works from the get go.

Maybe read my review of the Elemnt (above) as ask yourself if Wahoo have created a unit that "works from the get go". 'Cos I don't call undrawn maps, etc. something that "works". I don't call being unable to load routes for several days whilst Wahoo's infrastructure is not working leaving you "high and dry" "works from the get go". etc.

I'd assumed that people would read the review (or just look at the pictures) but maybe I wasted my time.

ibbo68 wrote:....The Bolt was half the price of the Edge 820 and it's far superior 8)

If you look at my photos of the Elemnt navigating above I'd have difficulty describing it a being "far superior"!

Ian

ScottishGeek
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby ScottishGeek » 20 Sep 2018, 10:06pm

ibbo68 wrote:
ScottishGeek wrote:The Elemnt/Bolt has fully customisable screens but you need a Smartphone and the App to do this.all set up via phone.

Why put "all set up via phone"when I've already said that in the text before it :roll:

That's the whole point of the Elemnt/Bolt....you need a Smartphone to set it up.If you read the Specifications etc it tells you this.If you don't have a Smartphone then this unit isn't for you!No need to use a PC/laptop so you can change things anywhere.
Re Garmin.
Edge 800 very troublesome from the off but was OK after multi-patch firmware fixes then OK for 18 months.
Edge 820 as i said FOUR faulty units,touch screen useless(especially in wet),poor battery life and after 12 months of Firmware patches still not right.Go on Garmin users Forum there's page after page of faults and it's still not right so what do Garmin do?
Release the 1030 and from feedback from fellow CC members who bought these it's the usual Garmin story.
Since releasing the 800 Garmin seem to release units that aren't ready then think releasing firmware patches make it OK(again look on Garmin users Forum).I prefer a unit that works from the get go.
The Bolt was half the price of the Edge 820 and it's far superior 8)

Its an acknowledgement I set up my Wahoo via phone.
We have different opinions of the Wahoo. I think its a **** piece of tech.

Garmin is by far a better seller than Wahoo therefore the dissenters will be more numerous and hence more vocal hence the forum comments.
Last edited by ScottishGeek on 20 Sep 2018, 10:17pm, edited 4 times in total.

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100%JR
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby 100%JR » 20 Sep 2018, 11:12pm

Psamathe wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:Since releasing the 800 Garmin seem to release units that aren't ready then think releasing firmware patches make it OK(again look on Garmin users Forum).I prefer a unit that works from the get go.

Maybe read my review of the Elemnt (above) as ask yourself if Wahoo have created a unit that "works from the get go". 'Cos I don't call undrawn maps, etc. something that "works". I don't call being unable to load routes for several days whilst Wahoo's infrastructure is not working leaving you "high and dry" "works from the get go". etc.
ibbo68 wrote:....The Bolt was half the price of the Edge 820 and it's far superior 8)

If you look at my photos of the Elemnt navigating above I'd have difficulty describing it a being "far superior"!
Ian

I did read your review.
I've owned a Bolt for over a year so know exactly what it does/doesn't do.I've not experienced "Wahoo infrastructure"failing in that time in the UK,France or Mallorca!

Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 20 Sep 2018, 11:33pm

ibbo68 wrote:.....
I've owned a Bolt for over a year so know exactly what it does/doesn't do.I've not experienced "Wahoo infrastructure"failing in that time in the UK,France or Mallorca!.....

When you've left high and dry with a dead brick because of such failures you get to question the device, it's design (software wise) and the focus of the company providing those systems.

I'm not commenting on it as a device for recording HR, cadence, calories, Strava whatevers, etc. but on it's navigation capabilities and reliability (or lack of reliability).

But I must admit I did feel a bit daft when these issues emerged as the guy in the shop advised me against the Elemnt saying they got loads back. But I ignored him and then ended-up joining that group.

The design of the system (i.e. route -> smartphone -> Wahoo Infrastructure (over internet) -> Elemnt (over internet)) did on occasions cause annoyance. At a couple of places I had no GSM coverage and ended-up having to pay for Wi-Fi (which was overpriced). And I then found that the Wi-Fi permits only a single device - yet to get the route Smartphone-> Wahoo and Wahoo->Elemnt requires both smartphone and Elemnt to have internet access. So I ended-up having to walk into town to get GSM coverage so I could use phone as a hotspot to get the Elemnt connected to the internet to get the route down from Wahoo!

I never tried it (I was not going to fork out €3 on an experiment) but I don't know how the Elemnt would handle connecting to a Wi-Fi network where you get diverted to a "landing page" where you enter a username, password agree to T&C's, etc (after connecting to the Wi-Fi, to get access beyond the Wi-Fi to the internet)

Ian

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100%JR
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby 100%JR » 24 Sep 2018, 1:31pm

Psamathe wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:.....
I've owned a Bolt for over a year so know exactly what it does/doesn't do.I've not experienced "Wahoo infrastructure"failing in that time in the UK,France or Mallorca!.....

When you've left high and dry with a dead brick because of such failures you get to question the device, it's design (software wise) and the focus of the company providing those systems.
I'm not commenting on it as a device for recording HR, cadence, calories, Strava whatevers, etc. but on it's navigation capabilities and reliability (or lack of reliability).
But I must admit I did feel a bit daft when these issues emerged as the guy in the shop advised me against the Elemnt saying they got loads back. But I ignored him and then ended-up joining that group.
The design of the system (i.e. route -> smartphone -> Wahoo Infrastructure (over internet) -> Elemnt (over internet)) did on occasions cause annoyance. At a couple of places I had no GSM coverage and ended-up having to pay for Wi-Fi (which was overpriced). And I then found that the Wi-Fi permits only a single device - yet to get the route Smartphone-> Wahoo and Wahoo->Elemnt requires both smartphone and Elemnt to have internet access. So I ended-up having to walk into town to get GSM coverage so I could use phone as a hotspot to get the Elemnt connected to the internet to get the route down from Wahoo!
I never tried it (I was not going to fork out €3 on an experiment) but I don't know how the Elemnt would handle connecting to a Wi-Fi network where you get diverted to a "landing page" where you enter a username, password agree to T&C's, etc (after connecting to the Wi-Fi, to get access beyond the Wi-Fi to the internet)

Ian
I transfer everything by Bluetooth?The only time I use Wi-Fi is when updating the unit.You need Wi-Fi/Laptop/PC to transfer files to a Garmin anyway.
On another note did you try navigating when not on the Map page?The reason I ask is that on my Edge 800/820 and my Bolt I open a route then go back to my default page and the unit(s) then prompt you when to turn etc.I found absolutely no difference in quality of the the Turn-by-turn between the Edge 820 and the Bolt.OK the Edge 820 has a colour map etc but half the battery life of the Bolt.The Bolts LEDs can also be set to "countdown" if you miss the TBT prompt for whatever reason.
Last edited by 100%JR on 24 Sep 2018, 2:45pm, edited 3 times in total.

Bez
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Bez » 24 Sep 2018, 2:17pm

Psamathe wrote:I never tried it (I was not going to fork out €3 on an experiment) but I don't know how the Elemnt would handle connecting to a Wi-Fi network where you get diverted to a "landing page" where you enter a username, password agree to T&C's, etc (after connecting to the Wi-Fi, to get access beyond the Wi-Fi to the internet)


I don't think it would, but I seem to recall that it did all the syncing it needed to while paired to my phone (which had an internet connection). And since roaming is essentially free in much of the world nowadays, that seems fine.

I seem to have got fed up with my current Garmins (1000 and Touring Plus) and am now pondering going back to the Elemnt or trying the Edge Explore. I'm pretty aware of what I'll hate about each of them and I'm not particularly enthused about living with either :)

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Si
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Si » 24 Sep 2018, 2:31pm

Let's please desist with the name calling and play nice everyone.....posts/bits of posts removed for this reason. As I always say: if the point that you are making stands up to scrutiny then you should be able to deliver it in a friendly, civil manner without the need to back it up with abuse. Many thanks.

Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 24 Sep 2018, 5:14pm

Bez wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I never tried it (I was not going to fork out €3 on an experiment) but I don't know how the Elemnt would handle connecting to a Wi-Fi network where you get diverted to a "landing page" where you enter a username, password agree to T&C's, etc (after connecting to the Wi-Fi, to get access beyond the Wi-Fi to the internet)


I don't think it would, but I seem to recall that it did all the syncing it needed to while paired to my phone (which had an internet connection). And since roaming is essentially free in much of the world nowadays, that seems fine......

My phone will only share an internet connection through a hotspot over GSM (i.e. it wont share a Wi-Fi connection). At a few places I had no GSM coverage so had to go into town. Got the route to the phone OK through local €3 paid for Wi-Fi but it only allowed a single device and I was not going to pay out another €3 for a few seconds of connectivity due to Wahoo's poor design (requiring smartphone->Elemnt via their internet servers!).

Ian

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100%JR
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby 100%JR » 24 Sep 2018, 5:28pm

Psamathe wrote:
Bez wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I never tried it (I was not going to fork out €3 on an experiment) but I don't know how the Elemnt would handle connecting to a Wi-Fi network where you get diverted to a "landing page" where you enter a username, password agree to T&C's, etc (after connecting to the Wi-Fi, to get access beyond the Wi-Fi to the internet)


I don't think it would, but I seem to recall that it did all the syncing it needed to while paired to my phone (which had an internet connection). And since roaming is essentially free in much of the world nowadays, that seems fine......

My phone will only share an internet connection through a hotspot over GSM (i.e. it wont share a Wi-Fi connection). At a few places I had no GSM coverage so had to go into town. Got the route to the phone OK through local €3 paid for Wi-Fi but it only allowed a single device and I was not going to pay out another €3 for a few seconds of connectivity due to Wahoo's poor design (requiring smartphone->Elemnt via their internet servers!).

Ian

It’s not a poor design.!
Is needing a laptop/pc/USB cable better?No!
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t own a smartphone(and that includes my 83 year old dad!)
so Wahoo are way ahead in terms of use on the fly.
Did you familiarise yourself with the ins and outs before your trip?

Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 24 Sep 2018, 5:29pm

ibbo68 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:.....
I've owned a Bolt for over a year so know exactly what it does/doesn't do.I've not experienced "Wahoo infrastructure"failing in that time in the UK,France or Mallorca!.....

When you've left high and dry with a dead brick because of such failures you get to question the device, it's design (software wise) and the focus of the company providing those systems.
I'm not commenting on it as a device for recording HR, cadence, calories, Strava whatevers, etc. but on it's navigation capabilities and reliability (or lack of reliability).
But I must admit I did feel a bit daft when these issues emerged as the guy in the shop advised me against the Elemnt saying they got loads back. But I ignored him and then ended-up joining that group.
The design of the system (i.e. route -> smartphone -> Wahoo Infrastructure (over internet) -> Elemnt (over internet)) did on occasions cause annoyance. At a couple of places I had no GSM coverage and ended-up having to pay for Wi-Fi (which was overpriced). And I then found that the Wi-Fi permits only a single device - yet to get the route Smartphone-> Wahoo and Wahoo->Elemnt requires both smartphone and Elemnt to have internet access. So I ended-up having to walk into town to get GSM coverage so I could use phone as a hotspot to get the Elemnt connected to the internet to get the route down from Wahoo!
I never tried it (I was not going to fork out €3 on an experiment) but I don't know how the Elemnt would handle connecting to a Wi-Fi network where you get diverted to a "landing page" where you enter a username, password agree to T&C's, etc (after connecting to the Wi-Fi, to get access beyond the Wi-Fi to the internet)

Ian
I transfer everything by Bluetooth?The only time I use Wi-Fi is when updating the unit.You need Wi-Fi/Laptop/PC to transfer files to a Garmin anyway.
On another note did you try navigating when not on the Map page?The reason I ask is that on my Edge 800/820 and my Bolt I open a route then go back to my default page and the unit(s) then prompt you when to turn etc.I found absolutely no difference in quality of the the Turn-by-turn between the Edge 820 and the Bolt.OK the Edge 820 has a colour map etc but half the battery life of the Bolt.The Bolts LEDs can also be set to "countdown" if you miss the TBT prompt for whatever reason.

But I thought you said
ibbo68 wrote:...
I've only ever tried my bolt for navigation once (just to see if it works) and it was faultless....

The transfer of collected ride stats (the .fit data, recorded track, and whatever other sensor data you have) is transferred over the Bluetooth link and that is a good solid transfer. But for some reason Wahoo designed their systems so the transfer of a route has to go over the internet through their servers and back to the Elemnt over Wi-Fi (i.e. it wont use the Bluetooth link).

When I switched to the Garmin I did everything locally on the Garmin - so no Wi-Fi/Laptop/PC needed for the way I was using it.

Turn by Turn on the Elemnt was initially good but after a few days it "got tired" and would give a few turns at the start of a route and then none until near the end when it sprung back into life. The LEDs across the top were more reliable (but not 100%). Re-booting helped but I didn't really bother as I found the route line over the map was fine for my purposes (with occasional off-track warnings) - hence I didn't raise it in my experiences as for me it was not an issue. That said, the reliable beep and instruction on the Garmin was helpful, particularly getting the distance to next turn. But as I say, unreliable Turn by turn on the Elemnt for me was not a massive issue (so I didn't bother re-booting to fix it).

Battery wise I found both my Garmin and the element adequate. On one or two rides the Elemnt ended up down at 5% whereas the lowest the Garmin ever got was 85%. I thought then that some longer distance cyclists might hit an issue with the Elemnt but it was not something that affected me (hence not raised in my review based on my experiences).

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 24 Sep 2018, 5:33pm

ibbo68 wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Bez wrote:
I don't think it would, but I seem to recall that it did all the syncing it needed to while paired to my phone (which had an internet connection). And since roaming is essentially free in much of the world nowadays, that seems fine......

My phone will only share an internet connection through a hotspot over GSM (i.e. it wont share a Wi-Fi connection). At a few places I had no GSM coverage so had to go into town. Got the route to the phone OK through local €3 paid for Wi-Fi but it only allowed a single device and I was not going to pay out another €3 for a few seconds of connectivity due to Wahoo's poor design (requiring smartphone->Elemnt via their internet servers!).

Ian

It’s not a poor design.!
Is needing a laptop/pc/USB cable better?No!
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t own a smartphone(and that includes my 83 year old dad!)
so Wahoo are way ahead in terms of use on the fly.
Did you familiarise yourself with the ins and outs before your trip?

when you transfer a route from your smartphone to the Elemnt through Wahoo's smartphone app the smartphone app sends to to Wahoo's internet servers and the Elemnt then downloads it from Wahoo's internet servers.

When you end a ride the results of that ride are transferred directly from the Elemnt to the smartphone app over Bluetooth.

I did familiarise myself with the app and then had communications with Wahoo over it all when their infrastructure went down. Accusing me of not knowing how to use it after quite a few tests in the UK, then a month in France seems ..... But you did say
ibbo68 wrote:...I've only ever tried my bolt for navigation once (just to see if it works) and it was faultless....

I never used a cable or laptop/PC with my Garmin (didn't have a laptop/PC with me).

My experiences seem to be upsetting you (despite my month+ daily navigation use against your "I've only ever tried my bolt for navigation once"). I'd be quite happy to answer questions people might have over my experiences with the device but I ain't going to argue with somebody who by their own admission has "only ever tried my bolt for navigation once"


Ian
Last edited by Psamathe on 24 Sep 2018, 5:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 24 Sep 2018, 5:42pm

Maybe time this thread was locked? As what was intended to be a review of experiences for the information of others seems to be upsetting some.

Bez
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Bez » 24 Sep 2018, 6:19pm

Keep it alive, please, I'm still interested :)

I recall my Bolt syncing (ie downloading) RWGPS routes in the field, ie via Bluetooth from my phone which had a 3G/4G connection, not over wifi. Maybe I'm mistaken…?

Psamathe
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Psamathe » 24 Sep 2018, 6:38pm

Bez wrote:Keep it alive, please, I'm still interested :)

I recall my Bolt syncing (ie downloading) RWGPS routes in the field, ie via Bluetooth from my phone which had a 3G/4G connection, not over wifi. Maybe I'm mistaken…?

Ride with GPS is a weird way and seems to completely change the behaviour of the Elemnt. If you provide the app with your Ride With GPS credentials the Elemnt UI undergoes changes as well.

My tests with RWGPS gave me routes I can only describe as "Certain Death" so I have a very strong mistrust. Those issues were discussed in another thread and different people were getting different routes based on the same inputs (some (not just me) getting "Certain Death" others getting more sensible routes. Hence my complete mistrust of the site.

Ideally Wahoo would integrate cycle.travel with their smartphone app and enable a bluetooth download but I leave Richard to decide if he wants to comment on that (as in private exchanges are private and not for me to post on open forum).

Re: locking the thread - it's getting unpleasant being accused with "Did you familiarise yourself with the ins and outs before your trip?" from somebody who by their own admission has only used it once for navigation. And I'm not going to discuss when people start going down that route. I felt I have useful experiences to let others know about but some are driving me to be defensive ...

Ian

Bez
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Re: Wahoo Elemnt

Postby Bez » 24 Sep 2018, 7:57pm

Psamathe wrote:Ride with GPS is a weird way and seems to completely change the behaviour of the Elemnt. If you provide the app with your Ride With GPS credentials the Elemnt UI undergoes changes as well.


In what way? I must admit I never tried using it without RWGPS; that was one of the selling points for me (and it worked extremely well in that respect).