Shand Stoater Rohloff

Please be fair and thoughtful in your opinions. No rants please.
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Wanlock Dod
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Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby Wanlock Dod » 12 Oct 2018, 7:30pm

Having just rolled through 10,000 miles on my Stoater I think it’s a good time to post a review of it. I’ve had it about three years and in that time it has served me well and needed virtually no maintenance. Whilst I think it’s a great looking bike it’s ordinary enough that folks are generally happy to ignore it if it’s outside a shop, but I’ve had a few chats with passing riders who have noticed it. I haven’t seen any others out on the road so far.

Overall the attention to detail is impressive, not just in the construction of the frame, but the paint job and the assembly also seem to have been done with a great deal of care and consideration. The paint is such that some scrapes will get through the top coat but not the undercoat, and changing the oil in the Rohloff hub is easy because the spokes have been positioned to make access to the drain plug as easy as possible.

Whilst I was already familiar with the convenience and intuitive nature of hub gears the belt drive was an absolute revelation to me in that I just leave it alone and it works fine. So far neither the belt, sprocket, or chainring seem to be showing any undesirable signs such as cracks or missing teeth.

It may be by far the most expensive bike I’ve ever bought, but it has also been by far the best value one too. Overall I think it’s a cracking bike and I would happily buy another one.

reohn2
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby reohn2 » 12 Oct 2018, 8:52pm

Thanks for the review,nothing beats a bike that's nice to ride and doesn't need constant attention :)
Photos please
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1982john
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby 1982john » 13 Oct 2018, 12:12am

Thanks for the review.

Saw this bike at the recent NEC bike show (It wasnt me who stole G's trophy honest guv) and it was the only one where for a few minutes after I was calculating in my head how much stuff I'd have to sell to afford it.

PH
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby PH » 13 Oct 2018, 10:17am

Really nice bikes I'm almost jealous :wink: I've seen a couple and the finish is excellent, powder coat I think? Which shows how that's improved over the last decade, or maybe it's just people taking more care over it.
When I was looking for a new home for my Rohloff last year this was on the shortlist (A very SHORT list) In the end I choose a Thorn Mercury as the OTP geometry suited me better and I couldn't take advantage of the belt drive anyway. I know two people with VN Rohloff belt drives and they have opposing opinions, I'd like to try one but not sure I'll ever need to spend that sort of money again.
My first Rohloff is 15 years old, on it's third shell (First two broke at the spoke holes, both replaced FOC within a week, credit to SJS) also on it's third frame (First one didn't suite a change of use, second cracked) currently leaking oil and needs the seals replaced, it's done at least 80,000 miles. It is without a doubt the best cycling purchase I've ever made. I bought another one second hand this year, I know it's history, it's had some proper adventures but not that high a mileage and the original owner is sadly no longer with us. I sort of have a use for it, mainly I like the idea of having a spare, I know there's no history of one wearing out, but surely they can't go on forever?

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby Wanlock Dod » 13 Oct 2018, 11:25am

It's evident that I'm not very good at taking pictures, and the camera on my phone is not too great either. These were a couple of months ago.
20180908_135510.jpg
20180825_150234.jpg

I've got a Thorn Raven Tour that I've had for far longer, but have probably ridden less than half as far on, and is doing fine service as a shopper these days. Whilst the Raven is fine for very heavily loaded touring the ride doesn't really improve that much when you take the panniers off, whereas I find that the Stoater is still a great bike to ride with a bit of a load on.

Most of the people who have told me that it is a very expensive bike have cars which depreciate by more than I paid for it every year, perhaps value is in the eye of the beholder.

Tiberius
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby Tiberius » 13 Oct 2018, 12:40pm

Oh no...here we go again....Wanlock Dod you really are a *******..... :mrgreen:

Like 'PH' above, I have also considered a Stoater as a new home for my Rohloff hub...currently in a Surly Troll. I had a big birthday last year (60) and was looking for something really nice to buy myself as a present, and a Stoater framset was well up the list. I spent ages on the Shand web site going through the colours etc and I oh so nearly caught a train up to Livingston for a full on 'reccy'

Why didn't I buy ?... Basically, I couldn't see how the frameset was worth circa 1500 smackers. I'm not saying that it isn't, I'm just saying that it's a lot of money and I couldn't see why it costs so much. It's Van Nicholas titanium money, and I can see how they charge what they charge. Maybe it's just me !!

I would then need to buy the belt drive bits and bobs... me being me, I would have to run a belt because it could, I would then make up my own mind as to if belt drive was/wasn't worth it. Add on brakes/new shifter/wheel rebuilds etc and the costs were adding up. I put the whole plan to bed and that was the end of it all.....UNTIL this thread crops up.

And so it starts again.....They are nice, aren't they ??!!...... :D

PH
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby PH » 13 Oct 2018, 5:01pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:I've got a Thorn Raven Tour that I've had for far longer, but have probably ridden less than half as far on, and is doing fine service as a shopper these days. Whilst the Raven is fine for very heavily loaded touring the ride doesn't really improve that much when you take the panniers off,

Nice photos.
The Raven Tour was also my introduction to Rohloff. I was riding 150 commuting miles a week, half of it on a dirty converted railway track, I couldn't keep up with the maintenance and cost of keeping the previous bike running well. The Raven was everything I wanted it to be, but fun it wasn't, it was the most stable bike with four panniers I've ever ridden, I just never did much of that. When the job finished, I wanted something else. The Mercury suites my current riding far better, if it had been available a decade ago I'd have skipped the custom fame in between. It's no load lugger though, it's not a problem but even my modest 12 kg camping kit becomes very noticeable.
On cost - I saw an interview the Paul of Paul Component, he said he liked his customers to get the crying out of the way at the time of purchase. It amused me and also rang true, I can't think of any of the big bike purchases I've made that haven't proved good to excellent value.

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby Wanlock Dod » 13 Oct 2018, 5:34pm

PH wrote:...I know two people with VN Rohloff belt drives and they have opposing opinions...

I am curious to know what issues folks have had with belt drives as my experience has been so positive that I fully intend for my entire fleet of bikes to be converted to belt drives in the fullness of time. I just don't see why one would bother with chains when it's not necessary. I have t timed a few folks when they have been oiling their chains to see whether or not my claim that I save enough time for a good ride every year just by not having to oil the chain is true. I could get quite a long way just in the cumulative time that some people spend looking for the oil. To be honest I'm not even sure that the system is any more expensive than a decent derailment system in the long term, although the up front cost is certainly higher.

I seriously considered a Mercury, although I found chain wear enough of a problem on my Raven that I thought a short throw eccentric might be better suited to a belt drive. The belt on the Stoater has not yet required any adjustment, indeed I would say it gets a maintenance schedule based mostly around neglect and new tyres when I think a puncture might be likely.

I have a vague feeling that the Stoater was the only one of the available options when I got it to have the frame actually manufactured in Europe, Shand were also noticeably more local to me than the others.

geocycle
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby geocycle » 13 Oct 2018, 5:59pm

Lovely bike wanlock.! I also started off with a Thorn Raven Tour. Fantastic bike for carrying huge loads without and difference in ride quality. But it was very similar to ride unladen. I swapped the Raven Tour frame for a Raven Sport Tour. I find this much better for almost every use. It can still carry touring loads and is a fantastic commuter. But it isn’t really a fun bike unladen no matter how much I tried to lighten the components. It’s like a Mercedes automatic, it just goes perfectly every time! I’m at about 35,000 miles. I’ve now added a spa audax as a day ride bike and really love it. Derailleurs are primitive to use when you’ve had a rohloff but they do probably have their place.

PH
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby PH » 13 Oct 2018, 6:44pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:
PH wrote:...I know two people with VN Rohloff belt drives and they have opposing opinions...

I am curious to know what issues folks have had with belt drives as my experience has been so positive that I fully intend for my entire fleet of bikes to be converted to belt drives in the fullness of time.

More their opinion of them than any issues, both bikes are VN Yukons, the first rider already has a different sort of Rohloff bike and likes the belt drive enough that I don't think I've seen them on another bike for a couple of years. The other I only see on Audax, the first time they were waxing lyrical, but they've been using a different bike on the few I've seen them on since, a short conversation was about the lack of "feel" which they put down to the belt, they have no other experience with Rohloff's so there's no knowing if it's belt, bike or hub.
I seriously considered a Mercury, although I found chain wear enough of a problem on my Raven that I thought a short throw eccentric might be better suited to a belt drive.

Yes, it's one of the few things I dislike, it isn't a lightweight bike (It isn't a lightweight rider) I can't see the weight saving over a full eccentric would have made much difference. I have a half link which I may experiment with adding to the system though it hasn't needed it yet. I've not had a high mileage year, it's done around 4,000, still on the original sub £10 chain though the adjustment is used up, I may just stick another one on.
The belt on the Stoater has not yet required any adjustment,

That's impressive. I don't mind the bit of chain maintenance I do, I know where the oil and rags are and the regime is wipe - oil - wipe and adjust when it looks like it might fall off. Main belt advantage to me would be how clean it is. If I'd chosen the Shand a belt wasn't an option, Rohloff don't offer retro-fitting and it was always going to be the same hub.

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Shand Stoater Rohloff

Postby Wanlock Dod » 13 Oct 2018, 8:13pm

PH wrote:...Main belt advantage to me would be how clean it is...

This is just another thing that I think is great about it, although it's really more that I find other bikes are intolerably dirty almost without exception.