Proviz top

Please be fair and thoughtful in your opinions. No rants please.
John Holiday
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Proviz top

Postby John Holiday » 13 Dec 2018, 5:49pm

Recently purchased one of these highly reflective jackets and have noticed that drivers seem to be giving me better clearance.
The odd idiot who still brushes your elbow, but generally motorists seem to react to high visibility.
Suprised by the number of obviously experienced cyclists riding around in black kit.

Airsporter1st
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Airsporter1st » 24 Dec 2018, 2:32pm

John Holiday wrote:Recently purchased one of these highly reflective jackets and have noticed that drivers seem to be giving me better clearance.
The odd idiot who still brushes your elbow, but generally motorists seem to react to high visibility.
Suprised by the number of obviously experienced cyclists riding around in black kit.


If you said you were surprised by the number lying dead or dying in the gutter, it would have more impact. The fact that you see them riding around suggests they are equally as visible as you are.

slowster
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Re: Proviz top

Postby slowster » 24 Dec 2018, 4:24pm

Airsporter1st wrote:
John Holiday wrote:Recently purchased one of these highly reflective jackets and have noticed that drivers seem to be giving me better clearance.
The odd idiot who still brushes your elbow, but generally motorists seem to react to high visibility.
Suprised by the number of obviously experienced cyclists riding around in black kit.


If you said you were surprised by the number lying dead or dying in the gutter, it would have more impact. The fact that you see them riding around suggests they are equally as visible as you are.

No it doesn't.

Typically I notice cyclists in dayglo or colourful team kit from much further away than a rider wearing all black kit. The fact that I do eventually spot the rider wearing black kit, does not suggest they are equally visible.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Cunobelin » 24 Dec 2018, 5:14pm

I have lived in Military areas for 40 odd years, with masses of cyclists in Camouflage, the death toll should be massive....... but it isn't

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Wanlock Dod » 24 Dec 2018, 5:37pm

As long as society can be persuaded that the visibility of cyclists is the problem it can only get worse, or has cycling somehow got loads safer over the past 25 years now that everybody has a helmet, hiviz, and daytime running lights?

Airsporter1st
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Airsporter1st » 24 Dec 2018, 5:50pm

slowster wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:
John Holiday wrote:Recently purchased one of these highly reflective jackets and have noticed that drivers seem to be giving me better clearance.
The odd idiot who still brushes your elbow, but generally motorists seem to react to high visibility.
Suprised by the number of obviously experienced cyclists riding around in black kit.


If you said you were surprised by the number lying dead or dying in the gutter, it would have more impact. The fact that you see them riding around suggests they are equally as visible as you are.

No it doesn't.

Typically I notice cyclists in dayglo or colourful team kit from much further away than a rider wearing all black kit. The fact that I do eventually spot the rider wearing black kit, does not suggest they are equally visible.


Perhaps its your eyesight. Numerous folk on here believe that black actually stands out as well if not better than hi-viz in certain environments.

slowster
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Re: Proviz top

Postby slowster » 24 Dec 2018, 6:38pm

Airsporter1st wrote:Perhaps its your eyesight.

Nope. My eyes were tested only a month ago.
Airsporter1st wrote:Numerous folk on here believe that black actually stands out as well if not better than hi-viz in certain environments.

I can imagine how it might stand out reasonably well - but not better than dayglo or lurid team kit - in some urban environments and possibly against some backgrounds in the countryside. However, I do most of my cycling in the countryside, and in wooded areas/on roads with tree cover black kit is far less visible, even more so if light levels are relatively low due the sky being overcast or due the time of day. If a rider is wearing black kit but has shorts on instead of longs, the movement of their relatively white legs as they pedal results makes them noticeable much sooner to me than if they are wearing black longs and top.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 24 Dec 2018, 6:56pm

John Holiday wrote:Recently purchased one of these highly reflective jackets and have noticed that drivers seem to be giving me better clearance.
The odd idiot who still brushes your elbow, but generally motorists seem to react to high visibility.
Suprised by the number of obviously experienced cyclists riding around in black kit.

I agree, they do light up very well indeed. Ninja cyclists are their own worst enemy.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Dec 2018, 9:07am

slowster wrote:
Airsporter1st wrote:Perhaps its your eyesight.

Nope. My eyes were tested only a month ago.
Airsporter1st wrote:Numerous folk on here believe that black actually stands out as well if not better than hi-viz in certain environments.

I can imagine how it might stand out reasonably well - but not better than dayglo or lurid team kit - in some urban environments and possibly against some backgrounds in the countryside. However, I do most of my cycling in the countryside, and in wooded areas/on roads with tree cover black kit is far less visible, even more so if light levels are relatively low due the sky being overcast or due the time of day. If a rider is wearing black kit but has shorts on instead of longs, the movement of their relatively white legs as they pedal results makes them noticeable much sooner to me than if they are wearing black longs and top.



Never, ever cycle in Norfolk......

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The problem is that I would need a whole set of touring panniers to cover the change of clothing every few minutes as the environment changes....

The problem still remains though that there is absolutely no evidence that HiViz actually works. The problem is that drivers simply either do not look or fail to respond appropriately when they do.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Dec 2018, 9:20am

Of course we could also discuss the other issues:

In the New Forest there are campaigns for all the Ponies to wear Hi Viz, in Dartmoor there was a campaign for the wild ponies to also carry lights!
In Wales some areas had cows and sheep in HiViz

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In Hungerford there were a number of collisions with live stock... the farmers asked for warning signs and a speed restriction, the council's reply was:
Hungerford Mayor Martin Crane proposed that "luminous bands or lights be put round the cows’ necks."


In Hampshire trees have been cut down several yards back from the road as they were a "hazard" to motorists

In Spain the "Ladies of the Night" have to wear HiViz!

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(OT - I Loved the quote from one of the City Municipal workers....Mr Sinigaglia added: ‘Let us hope men don’t get confused and try to pick up a road worker by mistake.’)



The question though is how far do we actually take this before common sense prevails and we recognise that HiViz is NOT The answer, stop pandering to the culprits and address the real issues

slowster
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Re: Proviz top

Postby slowster » 25 Dec 2018, 12:29pm

Cunobelin wrote:The question though is how far do we actually take this before common sense prevails and we recognise that HiViz is NOT The answer, stop pandering to the culprits and address the real issues

This thread has been about the visibility of the different clothing that many cyclists wear. Increased visibility may not necessarily equal increased safety, but my experience is that all black kit is in many conditions far less visible than most of the other options available, whether a coloured top or hi-viz.

The argument that cyclists wearing all black kit are just as visible, because you have to notice them in order to make a judgement about their choice of kit, is specious.

I agree that the fundamental issue is driving standards, and raising them especially with regard to how drivers behave around and towards cyclists. That does not mean that it's not daft or bloodyminded to knowingly choose to wear kit that makes a cyclist harder to spot.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Proviz top

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Dec 2018, 1:16pm

It is all down to personal choice, and given that there is no actual evidence, it should be unto the individual what they wear

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