Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Please be fair and thoughtful in your opinions. No rants please.
crushed
Posts: 14
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 2:21pm

Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by crushed »

Am I being unreasonable to ask for an exchange or partial refund?

Couldn't sleep last night as the shop customer service team and the shops are just bouncing me around, without any action to remedy my problem

I am a newbie and I walked into a shop. They wheeled me a bike, I sat on it, too tall, I was dancing around and could not touch the floor.

They told me they can customize it by cutting the seat post tube and I am led to believe it is standard practice for short people. The seat post now sitting right on top of cross bar and below the handle. The seat slanting forward.

I got the bike, rode it on the road and fell off a lot of times. Thought it was because I was inexperienced. I then found that other cyclists could straddle across the crossbar at the traffic light stop while I could not even at the lowest end of the slanting cross bar. Did some research and found that the stand over height should have an inch clearance.
Manufacturer website show 165-175cm for size M. I am 161cm bare foot.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bike ... s/p/32890/


Shops refused exchange or partial refund because
1) over 28 days
2) a tiny scratch and they said they cannot resell it ( I read another post that they give a customer 5 pounds on a 3000 pounds bike for a scratch )
3) seat tube modification

Found that the shop, a national chain, is bad at customer complaint
Should I pursue or just give it up for my mental peace? I have already wasted a day to talk to their CS team and went into the shop as was told to go in for an exchange. Felt being played around

I saved a lot for the bike. Bought it thru cycle scheme

Advice much appreciated

From Crushed mentally stressed
Darkman
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Joined: 30 Aug 2019, 8:46pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by Darkman »

<i>[rude word removed]</i> it. Sick of folk here.
Last edited by Darkman on 18 Oct 2021, 8:05am, edited 1 time in total.
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simonineaston
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by simonineaston »

From Crushed mentally stressed
I'm sorry to hear of your tale - it sounds depressing. I don't know that to advise that might help, other than to remark that if they have sold you something that is clearly unsuitable for use ie a bike that you cannot physically straddle, you may well have enough leverage to get them to take it back. Take your complaint as far up the managment structure as you can, if you can bare to. Press customer services to talk to the shop so you don't get the brush-off when you go back. If they agree you can have an exchange then its not for you to argue the case at the shop - they should instruct them.
Others will be along shortly who may make more constructive comments based on your legal position, especially as bought through cycle scheme which might have a bearing... if only from the pov that you can suggest that if they don't sort out your bike, it might be the last one they sell to customers from your firm.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Aikon
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by Aikon »

Talk to Trek, they’ll help you with advice by phone or web chat: https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/contactUs/
rualexander
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by rualexander »

Darkman wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 4:19pm I don't understand how you can not straddle the crossbar on a Trek DS2 at 165cm height. To have a bike with a lower standover height you'd have to go for one of the 'classic' designs like Pendleton or Pashley or something.
Well that's a load of nonsense.
How do you know what length the OPs legs are?
Different people have different lengths of legs and torsos.
The referred to size M has a standover height of 76.5 cm.
The size S has a standover height of 66.7cm, almost 10cm lower, and would certainly be a much better size for the OP.
crushed
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Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 2:21pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by crushed »

Aikon wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 5:57pm Talk to Trek, they’ll help you with advice by phone or web chat: https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/contactUs/
not Trek. Thru a national big chain retailer. Am I allowed to say the you know who I guess?
crushed
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Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 2:21pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by crushed »

rualexander wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 6:52pm
Darkman wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 4:19pm I don't understand how you can not straddle the crossbar on a Trek DS2 at 165cm height. To have a bike with a lower standover height you'd have to go for one of the 'classic' designs like Pendleton or Pashley or something.
Well that's a load of nonsense.
How do you know what length the OPs legs are?
Different people have different lengths of legs and torsos.
The referred to size M has a standover height of 76.5 cm.
The size S has a standover height of 66.7cm, almost 10cm lower, and would certainly be a much better size for the OP.
Sorry I might not have written well as I have lost a night of sleep.
I am 161cm bare foot and think around 163cm with shoes. my legs inseam is around 71cm.

When I am trying the bike in shop, I told the sales I am a newbie and cannot ride that bike as the seat is too tall and I cannot even tiptoe on the ground, and I needed my feet grounded for safety. I would be riding the bike on road to tube station, plus weekend park trails.

He then advised to cut the seat tube post. He said the manufacturer made the tube longer so that it can be cut down.
I didn't realize until I rode the bike out and watching how other cyclists rode and their bikes geometry to their bodies and started thinking might be it was the bike problem and not me.
crushed
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Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 2:21pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by crushed »

Here is a photo
bike.png
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by thirdcrank »

crushed wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 9:00pm ...
Sorry I might not have written well as I have lost a night of sleep.
I am 161cm bare foot and think around 163cm with shoes. my legs inseam is around 71cm.

When I am trying the bike in shop, I told the sales I am a newbie and cannot ride that bike as the seat is too tall and I cannot even tiptoe on the ground, and I needed my feet grounded for safety. I would be riding the bike on road to tube station, plus weekend park trails.

He then advised to cut the seat tube post. He said the manufacturer made the tube longer so that it can be cut down.
I didn't realize until I rode the bike out and watching how other cyclists rode and their bikes geometry to their bodies and started thinking might be it was the bike problem and not me. (My bold)
There's no mention there of stand-over height. You've told him the seat is too high and he's explained it can be lowered.
Psamathe
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by Psamathe »

crushed wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 8:52pm
Aikon wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 5:57pm Talk to Trek, they’ll help you with advice by phone or web chat: https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/contactUs/
not Trek. Thru a national big chain retailer. Am I allowed to say the you know who I guess?
I think if you are getting nowhere with the retailer then try Trek as they might raise it with the retailer or pressure them. I'm no expert on retail law/rules/practice but if it were me I'd pursue it up through the retailer management levels as much as possible before talking to Trek so when you do contact them you can say "I've been dealing with Mr/Mrs <x>, <position>, <contact number> and got nowhere and ...".

When I'm having issues with a company on the phone I'm quite quick to say that clearly we are getting nowhere so I want this escalated. Normally they do an you get to a level up and if you still get nowhere, ask for it to be escalated again, etc.. But before long they'll start "there is nowhere to escalate it to" and if you get that, I'd just write to the Managing Director (printed post, recorded delivery to their hear office - easy enough to find the name of the MD).

I was once so fed-up with probably the largest telecoms provider in the UK that I sent a complaint e-mail to the MD and ... next day I got a call and apparently the MD had a specialist team of troubleshooters who get assigned a case, have pretty well unlimited authority and stick with it until it's sorted. And it was as when I then started arguing for compensation we were back and forth a bit so I doubled my sought number and said she would undoubtedly have to get a supervisors authority to which I was told that she was the ultimate authority, no supervisor to approve anything! (we'd actually become friends over the couple of months the fix took). So with some companies writing to the MD can work - but, the company you are probably dealing with maybe has less of a reputation to maintain but worth a try. All you can d is try and if it were me I'd keep contact with Trek until you have exhausted all options at the retailer.

Ian
crushed
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Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 2:21pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by crushed »

thirdcrank wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 9:10pm
crushed wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 9:00pm ...
Sorry I might not have written well as I have lost a night of sleep.
I am 161cm bare foot and think around 163cm with shoes. my legs inseam is around 71cm.

When I am trying the bike in shop, I told the sales I am a newbie and cannot ride that bike as the seat is too tall and I cannot even tiptoe on the ground, and I needed my feet grounded for safety. I would be riding the bike on road to tube station, plus weekend park trails.

He then advised to cut the seat tube post. He said the manufacturer made the tube longer so that it can be cut down.
I didn't realize until I rode the bike out and watching how other cyclists rode and their bikes geometry to their bodies and started thinking might be it was the bike problem and not me. (My bold)
There's no mention there of stand-over height. You've told him the seat is too high and he's explained it can be lowered.
No I didn't mention of stand-over height. I didn't know that was an important safety measure when I was buying.

I felt being taken advantage of because the shop is supposed to be experts and I have told them I am a newbie.

I felt they should have told me the bike is built for 165cm+ and just said they didn't have the right stock for me
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by thirdcrank »

AIUI, You have different rights when buying something as opposed to buying a service.

In my words, if you buy something it should fit any requirements you stipulate (so if you order a blue one, pink may not do) and not faulty. Now, it sounds as though the bike itself is sound in that you have not mentioned faults.

A service should be carried out properly, and one service they have carried out is shortening the seat pin.

Now, the grey area is whether the service they were offering and you thought you were buying included making sure the bike was the right size for you. I presume that if they had been advertising a customised bike-fitting service you would have mentioned that. I think - and it's no stronger than that - any enforceable rights depend on convincing the relevant tribunal that this sale included some form of service. The best evidence of that would be the retailer's own advertising; anything from the salesperson might be relevant but harder to prove. One factor might be that you might have been expected to know that you couldn't straddle the frame comfortably the first time you tried to ride it and then it seems obvious to me that no matter what adjustments can be made to the saddle and handlebars of an existing bike, the dimensions of the frame including the height of the top-tube are fixed.

Setting aside distance selling which doesn't seem to be involved here, a shop's returns policy is pretty much just that. eg Once upon a time, St Michael was the patron saint of taking stuff back, but M&S changed that simply through advertising. More generally, I don't think it's usual for retailers - typically clothing retailers - to exchange stuff made or altered to order unless the item is faulty. Again, the retailer's advertising is the key

Beyond that, I think you are dependant on good will
rualexander
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by rualexander »

From the measurements you have given above, and from the photo of the bike with the seatpost completely lowered. It is obvious that this frame size is too big for you.
The shop staff should not have sold you this bike as it is unfit for your use.
They said they could make it fit you but they couldn't as you are still having problems riding it.
Any bike shop that sells a bike with the saddle and seatpost like that in your photo is in my opinion being negligent and guilty of misselling.

They may say however that you accepted it when you collected it.
PH
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by PH »

rualexander wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 10:15pm They may say however that you accepted it when you collected it.
Sadly, despite the poor advice received, I'm pretty sure this is what any consumer regulation will also say.
There's a very limited time to inspect and accept any product, using it for 28 days is going to fall well outside that. It have been a bit better if bought online, but even then not if it's been used.
It seems you were deliberately missold, I'd be taking it as high as possible in the hope someone will be sympathetic.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Refused exchange or partial refund - bike stand over height too tall

Post by roubaixtuesday »

crushed wrote: 17 Oct 2021, 9:06pm Here is a photobike.png
A few thoughts.

1. If that saddle is the right height for you then the bike frame is way too big. The official sizing quoted upthread also suggests it's too big.

2. My wife is the same height you are, and I would suggest the saddle is probably set too low for a comfortable riding position. Which is not to suggest you should accept the bike as-is.

3. The shop seems from what you've posted to have clearly recommended the wrong model. It is not fit for purpose, and never was. The 28 days, minor scratches etc is not relevant.

4. A suggestion to get a twitter account and contact them that way. Post a picture, message "BRAND XXX your shop in YYY claims this bike has been correctly fitted for me and refuse to exchange. Please help me get a swap for a properly sized model" or similar. Brands hate bad publicity.
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