J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

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hondated
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J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by hondated »

Firstly it is not my intention to denigrate this company as I have previously purchased items from them and no problems.
However this time I brought a Specialised cycle helmet a Propero 2 and despite its good reviews because the straps buckle up on the jaw line rather than under the ear it made me look even more geeky so I decided to send it back.
And that is the point of this message its just cost me £7 to return it because the company insist it must be by Royal Mail recorded delivery.
If I could of used Hermes it would have been so much cheaper.
So if you do buy items from this company and I am not suggesting you don't then make sure its everything you want it to be as it could cost a small fortune to return it to them.
Last edited by Graham on 2 Jan 2015, 11:20am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added information to title to focus on issue.
Psamathe
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by Psamathe »

I'm no expert but I thought the distance selling rules/laws just said that the return postage is at your cost, not that they can specify a specific carrier at your expense. They can reasonably ask for certain procedures (e.g. RMA numbers to be issued in advance) to assist their admin but requiring a specific carrier is just not acceptable (in my opinion).

You might check with a Citizens Advice about that and then, assuming I am correct (and I may be wrong), reclaim the cost difference from them.

These days, before purchasing anything online I check the returns procedures for the company and they form a significant part of my deciding who to buy from. Many decent cost companies offer return paid purchase (i.e. they pay for the return to themselves as well). Some companies make you jump through all sorts of "hoops" (real pain) whilst others include the returns paperwork in the item delivery, just in case.

Ian
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jezer
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by jezer »

I'm sure there was a thread on here some time ago about returning items to Internet suppliers, where it was stated that postage costs had to be refunded. I may be mistaken, but perhaps others have better memories?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by Bonefishblues »

jezer wrote:I'm sure there was a thread on here some time ago about returning items to Internet suppliers, where it was stated that postage costs had to be refunded. I may be mistaken, but perhaps others have better memories?

If you notice (and I'm not sure about the co. in question) a lot of companies now sent "post free" - because they bundle its cost into the item price - and therefore it's your bag! But ordinarily, yes, you're correct.
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hondated
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by hondated »

Thanks everyone there's some great information in there.Given I have posted it already I will remember what you have all suggested for next time.
maxcherry
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by maxcherry »

They lied to you

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... egulations


The law states the seller has to carry the cost of returns
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!
SteveHunter
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by SteveHunter »

Online companies with no quibble and free returns policies are one of the main reasons I return for repeat custom. I use Wiggle largely for this reason, I have had to return a couple of items and on both occasions it was no problem.
irc
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by irc »

maxcherry wrote:They lied to you

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... egulations


The law states the seller has to carry the cost of returns


Doesn't look that clear cut to me. From your link ..

The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.

If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.


So if the T&Cs state returned are at buyer's expense .....
Penfolds11
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by Penfolds11 »

irc wrote:
maxcherry wrote:They lied to you http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... regulation The law states the seller has to carry the cost of returns


Doesn't look that clear cut to me. From your link ..

The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.

If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.


So if the T&Cs state returned are at buyer's expense .....


There appear to be two separate events (and using quotes from the Which? link):

1) The buyer doesn't want the goods anymore and is exercising their right to cancel the contract within 7 days. In which case, "The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item. If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost. " applies.

2) The goods are faulty (or don't match the description) in which case they are returned under the Sale of Goods Act and "Any terms and conditions that say you must cover the cost of returning an item wouldn’t apply where the goods being returned are faulty." applies.

In this thread the OP returned the goods because they made him look even more geeky so it would appear that scenario 1 applies, ie they were not returned because they were faulty but because the buyer wished to exercise his right to cancel the contract within 7 days.

Well, that's how I read it anyway! :?
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hondated
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by hondated »

That's how I read it as well Penfolds11.
I just wanted by posting others to be aware when buying something to make sure its what they want and to also know that it is the correct size rather than have to waste money on postal charges.
Psamathe
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by Psamathe »

Penfolds11 wrote:
irc wrote:
maxcherry wrote:They lied to you http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... regulation The law states the seller has to carry the cost of returns


Doesn't look that clear cut to me. From your link ..

The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.

If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.


So if the T&Cs state returned are at buyer's expense .....


There appear to be two separate events (and using quotes from the Which? link):

1) The buyer doesn't want the goods anymore and is exercising their right to cancel the contract within 7 days. In which case, "The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item. If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost. " applies.

2) The goods are faulty (or don't match the description) in which case they are returned under the Sale of Goods Act and "Any terms and conditions that say you must cover the cost of returning an item wouldn’t apply where the goods being returned are faulty." applies.

In this thread the OP returned the goods because they made him look even more geeky so it would appear that scenario 1 applies, ie they were not returned because they were faulty but because the buyer wished to exercise his right to cancel the contract within 7 days.

Well, that's how I read it anyway! :?

The Which link seems to give a 404 Page Not Found error now.

Somebody pointed out elsewhere http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93101&p=853618&hilit=+distance+selling+#p853618 that UK distance selling regs have now been superceeded by the EU version some time last year and I went to the Which link to check the date on it. Maybe it was pre the change to the EU regs ? and thus became out of date ? But can't check now it's gone.

Ian
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cycleruk
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by cycleruk »

Just tried the "Which" link and it worked for me.
Still found it a bit confusing but my understanding is generally - If the item is returned because you don't want or like it then it's returned at your cost.
Unless the "seller" has a no postal charge returns policy.
If the item is wrong or damaged then the seller has to pay the return cost.
I haven't bought from some firms because they had a returns/restocking charge but from the Which link it appears that is now illegal.
Obviously this only applies to the UK and probably the EU but not China etc. :mrgreen:
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hondated
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by hondated »

Yes I think you are correct there but J E James stipulation that it must be returned via Royal Mail recorded is in my opinion a little outdated. I say that because we now have postal companies that we can use that acquire a signature for what you are sending and are significantly cheaper.
Prior to this I had to return a frame to another company which had cost them £15 to send to me but because I wanted to return it securely, prior to learning of Hermes, I returned it via Royal Mail and it cost me £38.
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Bicycler
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by Bicycler »

Psamathe wrote:
Penfolds11 wrote:There appear to be two separate events (and using quotes from the Which? link):

1) The buyer doesn't want the goods anymore and is exercising their right to cancel the contract within 7 days. In which case, "The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item. If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost. " applies.

2) The goods are faulty (or don't match the description) in which case they are returned under the Sale of Goods Act and "Any terms and conditions that say you must cover the cost of returning an item wouldn’t apply where the goods being returned are faulty." applies.

In this thread the OP returned the goods because they made him look even more geeky so it would appear that scenario 1 applies, ie they were not returned because they were faulty but because the buyer wished to exercise his right to cancel the contract within 7 days.

Well, that's how I read it anyway! :?

The Which link seems to give a 404 Page Not Found error now.

Somebody pointed out elsewhere http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93101&p=853618&hilit=+distance+selling+#p853618 that UK distance selling regs have now been superceeded by the EU version some time last year and I went to the Which link to check the date on it. Maybe it was pre the change to the EU regs ? and thus became out of date ? But can't check now it's gone.

Yep, the Distance Selling Regulations have now been replaced by the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 (the UK implementation of the EU Consumer Rights Directive) which came into force in June 2014: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made
The two important bits are that you now have 14 days to cancel after receiving the good(s) and buyers are responsible for return postage as long as the seller has informed them of this.

Where an order is cancelled and goods returned I can't see that they can stipulate or refuse any postal service. You do bear the risks of damage or loss in the post so it is wise for you to use a signature service such as Hermes or Royal Mail Signed For (why, years later, do people still call it Recorded?). J E James probably weren't bothered in this scenario anyway because it is your risk. They just won't want lots of allegedly broken Garmins allegedly lost in the post on their return :wink:

Note that there is a difference between cancelling a contract of sale and merely returning a good. The CCR (and the preceding DSR) only relate to the former. For the latter you are relying on the company's returns policies. Many companies will treat a good returned within 14 days as a cancelled transaction but they don't strictly have to. It is your job to inform them of your wish to cancel.

In truth many companies don't meet all the requirements of keeping you informed so you are probably technically entitled to your £7 back. You could remind them of their obligation to inform you of your cancellation rights and any requirement for you to pay return postage in the event of cancellation. Also, their obligation to supply you with a cancellation form in the format set out in part B of schedule 3 of the act. Good luck with that... :lol:

Somebody mentioned faulty goods. That is in the Sale Of Goods Act 1979. Sellers must bear the cost of postage for items repaired or replaced.
Bicycler
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Re: J E James Cycles - Returns requirement Alert !

Post by Bicycler »

By the way if anybody does use Royal Mail Signed For ("Recorded" if you must :roll: ) you can claim the cost of postage back from Royal Mail if they don't collect a signature on delivery, so always check using the tracking reference they give you.
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