How many miles of training

Specific board for this popular undertaking.
denniswpearce
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby denniswpearce » 9 May 2016, 7:51pm

Thank you to all the above contributors for your excellent views which I have found very enlightening relative to my preparations for my Lejog starting on 6th June.
I am 69 and I thought reasonably fit. I have built up my miles steadily since Feb of this year to the point I am doing two rides ( 50 to 70 miles ) every weekend since middle of April and one mid week 22 one. I used to do mainly flatish terrain but since middle of April have been in the Cotswold Hills with all its hills. I have had to admit defeat on a couple of very steep hills and walk up them. The last bit of Burford High St, for those that know it.
Anyway, I believe I am getting there but my main issue at my age is saddle soreness. As we get older we lose muscle mass and the bones in my rear end, which are close to the surface and thus no padding. I wear two sets of lycra padded shorts to create more cushioning.
I have tried many different saddles all with the same result, even a Brooks.
But reading your replies I believe I can manage lejog if I take these cake breaks regularly which should make the ride longer but give my posterior a break also.
Thanks
Dennis
ps. At least I will sleep in a bed each night to get the rest I will need

rareposter
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby rareposter » 9 May 2016, 8:28pm

denniswpearce wrote:Anyway, I believe I am getting there but my main issue at my age is saddle soreness. As we get older we lose muscle mass and the bones in my rear end, which are close to the surface and thus no padding. I wear two sets of lycra padded shorts to create more cushioning.


I would suggest that the 2 pairs of shorts is likely to be part of the problem. All that extra padding and compression is actually very bad. It creates an extremely hot microclimate, leads to more sweating, more chafing as the shorts rub against each other and less breathability for the skin.

It's more likely that your position on the bike needs sorting (especially if you're very upright and putting a lot of weight through the saddle) and/or the saddle is at the wrong angle or wrong height.

As soon as you finish a ride, get the shorts off, have a good shower, wash thoroughly and dry off properly. Make sure the shorts get the same treatment too. It minimises the risk of any infection. The worst thing that people can do after a long day riding is to sit around wearing the same sweaty cycling shorts for ages afterwards. I've seen people finish a day, then head straight to the bar and start 'rehydrating', uploading Strava, talking about their day...and before you know it they've been sat there stewing away in their sweaty lycra for another 3hrs.

Most people find it's not miles of training that are the issue, it's time in the saddle and the hours spent in that position.

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Re: How many miles of training

Postby Vorpal » 9 May 2016, 9:22pm

rareposter wrote:
denniswpearce wrote:Anyway, I believe I am getting there but my main issue at my age is saddle soreness. As we get older we lose muscle mass and the bones in my rear end, which are close to the surface and thus no padding. I wear two sets of lycra padded shorts to create more cushioning.


It's more likely that your position on the bike needs sorting (especially if you're very upright and putting a lot of weight through the saddle) and/or the saddle is at the wrong angle or wrong height.


If a lack of padding/cushioning is the problem, the outcome will be bruising, not saddle sores. If you do suffer from buising, something like a gel saddle might help.

If you are sore, rather than bruised, it may be from chafing or bacteria, or some combination.

If chafing, as above, it's likely to be position, especially since, as you say, you've tried different saddles.

Have a look at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74985
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 9 May 2016, 9:27pm

Hi,
When I was into walking with my camping gear on my back, I never measured the miles, but equated it to hours to get some where, divide the miles by three and in so many hours I would be there, not the whole day but my next hill or whatever.
So plan like that as said in other posts.

Do remember to top up fluid and food regularly and evenly on the hours not the miles, also carry spare rations which might last you half a day at a pinch.

To give you an idea at worst I can lose over 2 kgs in an hour, today I got home and weighed myself, drank about 250 cc (not enough) chewed on a rice cake (not enough for real recovery at all) had a shower and in less than an hour I was 500 grams lighter............................. so I lost 750 grams, which must have been sweat. that's after I stopped working on the bike.

Don't think you can run on empty, some here report tiredness which might be a lack of food on the bike / frequent stops for cake.
The fittest person only has 3 hours of energy in the tank when pressed.

Good luck.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

denniswpearce
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby denniswpearce » 9 May 2016, 10:47pm

Vorpal wrote:
rareposter wrote:
denniswpearce wrote:Anyway, I believe I am getting there but my main issue at my age is saddle soreness. As we get older we lose muscle mass and the bones in my rear end, which are close to the surface and thus no padding. I wear two sets of lycra padded shorts to create more cushioning.


It's more likely that your position on the bike needs sorting (especially if you're very upright and putting a lot of weight through the saddle) and/or the saddle is at the wrong angle or wrong height.


If a lack of padding/cushioning is the problem, the outcome will be bruising, not saddle sores. If you do suffer from buising, something like a gel saddle might help.

If you are sore, rather than bruised, it may be from chafing or bacteria, or some combination.

If chafing, as above, it's likely to be position, especially since, as you say, you've tried different saddles.

Have a look at viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74985


Guys, thanks for your comments and advice.
I have tried many different padded lycra shorts, expensive and cheap and about five different saddles. Having been cycling for many years saddle soreness was not a problem until I went beyond 30 miles. I still get very sore with just one pair of padded shorts. Although my local bike shop does not do saddle fitting they appear to get it right when I am in the shop as it feels right and I have watched many youtube clips on setting up saddles. So I believe I know enough to get the saddle about right. I certainly do not sit upright when on the bike. The bike was ordered to fit my size and I must say it is the first bike that has felt right for me
As soon as I finish a ride I am out of my lycra and into a shower, so I am not sitting round in my own sweat.
Once again thanks for the advice but you have to be 69 to appreciate how close to the surface your bones become. I am guessing most of you guys are not there yet. I am fairly skinny as well which does not help and my weight is only 9 stone 6 pounds with clothes on. See I am quite a small guy.
The only thing that makes the ride more comfortable is more padding but its still bloody painful

eileithyia
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby eileithyia » 10 May 2016, 9:10am

Some good advise so far re the saddle, do you have / can you upload a photo of yourself on the bike..... ?

I might not be your age but myself and my partner are both fairly skinny with little padding (he even less than i have and nearer your age) and we do not have these issues.
Is it bruising or actual sores?
Checking your bike will not harm.
Are you using chamois cream ... which actually should be b*m cream and put on the skin not directly onto the shorts and the lycra?

None of your coffee stops need be long ones, 30 mins will be adequate at most places to consume a drink and small light snack. They will not add much to your day and if you are becoming weary due to needing a break, you will actually be faster and ride better once refreshed after the break (that's my experience anyway).

There is no shame in walking up a hill, why would you think so, I have often walked up an especially tough hill when touring. Grind up a hill at 3-4mph or walk up it at similar speed?
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

nosmarbaj
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby nosmarbaj » 10 May 2016, 9:51am

denniswpearce wrote:I have built up my miles steadily since Feb of this year to the point I am doing two rides ( 50 to 70 miles ) every weekend since middle of April and one mid week 22 one. I used to do mainly flatish terrain but since middle of April have been in the Cotswold Hills with all its hills. I have had to admit defeat on a couple of very steep hills and walk up them. The last bit of Burford High St, for those that know it.
Anyway, I believe I am getting there but my main issue at my age is saddle soreness.

If you are fit enough to do 50-70 hilly miles on consecutive days, you are probably already quite fit enough for a 12-day supported LEJoG (that's what you're planning, right?).

I would take a weekend off cycling - maybe do some energetic hiking or something if you want to keep up the exercise. Give your backside a rest and it might sort itserlf out :)

denniswpearce
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby denniswpearce » 10 May 2016, 7:43pm

Thanks again guys.
I do use Assos chamois cream on my rear before the ride and it is sores I have not bruising. The bike is in for servicing and a good checking over at the moment so I will not ride tomorrow and give my body a bit more time to heal.
Also my weekend is a three day weekend so my longer rides are not consecutive but one day between each, sorry I misled you. On my last ride of 73 miles I did an average of 13.5 mph, its not fast but I was happy with that. Head winds and hills are what slows me down, thank heavens for a good set of gears as I use those rather than try and power through a hill.
Regarding my cycling position, the bike was ordered by the cycle shop to fit my size, which I feel it does perfectly. Incidentally its a "WHYTE" SUSSEX racing bike, British made. So I am not understanding how the riding position can be wrong once I get the seat position right. By watching youtube clips I thought I had it right for each of the different saddles I have tried.
I think I just have to persevere and put up with the pain. No pain, no gain.
The event is not far away now so I will let you know how I get on.
Cheers guys.
ps. I do play tennis twice a week so get more exercise from that to add to my cycling

rareposter
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby rareposter » 10 May 2016, 8:30pm

denniswpearce wrote:I think I just have to persevere and put up with the pain. No pain, no gain.


Personally I go with "no pain - no pain!"
You need to stop riding completely and allow yourself to heal. Riding on an injury (which is effectively what it is) is not going to heal it, it's going to make it worse and if you get infected "down there" it will be thoroughly unpleasant in more ways than just sitting on a saddle! A good antiseptic cream will help it heal more quickly.

denniswpearce
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby denniswpearce » 10 May 2016, 9:21pm

rareposter wrote:
denniswpearce wrote:I think I just have to persevere and put up with the pain. No pain, no gain.



You need to stop riding completely and allow yourself to heal. .


Thanks, good advice which I will take.

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Re: How many miles of training

Postby Vorpal » 10 May 2016, 9:43pm

denniswpearce wrote:Thanks again guys.
I do use Assos chamois cream on my rear before the ride and it is sores I have not bruising. The bike is in for servicing and a good checking over at the moment so I will not ride tomorrow and give my body a bit more time to heal.
Also my weekend is a three day weekend so my longer rides are not consecutive but one day between each, sorry I misled you. On my last ride of 73 miles I did an average of 13.5 mph, its not fast but I was happy with that. Head winds and hills are what slows me down, thank heavens for a good set of gears as I use those rather than try and power through a hill.
Regarding my cycling position, the bike was ordered by the cycle shop to fit my size, which I feel it does perfectly. Incidentally its a "WHYTE" SUSSEX racing bike, British made. So I am not understanding how the riding position can be wrong once I get the seat position right. By watching youtube clips I thought I had it right for each of the different saddles I have tried.
I think I just have to persevere and put up with the pain. No pain, no gain.
The event is not far away now so I will let you know how I get on.
Cheers guys.

Had another thought... most men's saddle are fairly narrow. Even trying different brands might not be sufficient of they are all the wrong shape for your backside. Have you tried saddles that are significantly wider or narrower? Also, is your weight on your sitbones? Are your sitbones where you are sore?
A Whyte Sussex is designed for a fairly aggressive riding position. That will put your weight somewhat forward and possibly increase pressure on soft tissue.

As rareposter says, if you have sores, especially if they are from chafing, and you ride on them, they will just get worse.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

eileithyia
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby eileithyia » 10 May 2016, 11:03pm

As well as resting to allow sores to heal, it might not harm to see a Dr., they could be infected and due to a bacterial source, it could be that you might need a course of antibiotics to aid healing

Regarding position, your saddle height and position might be fine but it might then be your handlebar height that needs tweaking, too high and you could be sat more upright with increased pressure through your sit bones etc., while a lower position might shift your weight further forward and be more balanced between the pressure points.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

eileithyia
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby eileithyia » 11 May 2016, 10:19am

I have asked the question a on racing forum i also frequent (plenty of lightweight older riders on there).
Advise so far has ranged from; saddle fit. Assos shorts (even the pros have their team supplied shorts fitted with Assos pad), do not do double shorts, ensure it is not due to an infected hair follicle, pop any with heads on and apply alcohol based after shave.. (will sting initially but encourages drying of the skin), germolene.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

eileithyia
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby eileithyia » 11 May 2016, 3:55pm

..and ensure the shorts are a snug fit, so that the insert is not moving around as you cycle to cause chafing..
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells

denniswpearce
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Re: How many miles of training

Postby denniswpearce » 11 May 2016, 7:59pm

Once again thank you all for your input.
I have several points on the above posts. All my lycra padded shorts are a snug fit and do not understand how they can move around if they are a snug fit.
Unfortunately my last 60 mile ride last sunday was when I developed the sores and I did try some briefs underneath my "Mavic" bib shorts plus a second set of lycra shorts over that, just to provide more padding. The sores are not massive and should heal quickly, so I believe the briefs may be the cause of the sores. Will not be doing that again.
Maybe you folks can comment.
I do not understand why two pairs of padded shorts are a no no, could someone explain why please. My thinking is that with my sit bones being so close to the surface more padding should help the comfort level, wrong or right ?
Also not really understanding how the riding position on my Whyte Sussex can be so wrong. The riding position is what I think of as being a racing bike position for cycling. You are leaning forward from the saddle with your hands on the curved edge of the bars. Feels perfectly natural and normal compared to my last bike which was too big and I did struggle. This is why I went to the bike shop to get them to order a bike for my size.
I am confused.
Nice thought about going to see the Dr, we have had to wait 4 weeks to get an appointment for my wife to see one. By the time I booked an appointment my posterior would be healed before I got there.