Motorhome including a driver hire !

[2360simmons]

I completed Lejog in April/May this year over 14 days of cycling with three friends in aid of Alzheimers Society . We hired a motorhome and stayed at campsites along the way. We had problems finding another friend who could commit to 16 days away driving the motorhome for us and generally supporting the team. We ended up having two drivers for each week and the second week driver pulled out the night before we set off! This resulted in one of my friends , who should have been cycling having to take over the driving for the second week.

I am thinking of buying a motorhome and hiring it out to Le Joggers ( and cyclists doing any other tour) who are having similar difficulties and cannot find a driver. Hiring a campervan is a lot cheaper than staying in hotels/ B and B's and has the benefit of providing a support vehicle. I would meet cyclists on the road for lunch and set up at a campsite at the end of the day, do the shopping en route etc. Hiring me and my campervan would work out a lot cheaper than larger established tours and my experience on Lejog should prove helpful.

I am wondering if anyone has a view whether this idea is a runner and there is a market for hiring out a motorhome plus driver for cycle tours? Any view gratefully received.

[Graham]

Are you sure that the economics stack-up on this ( if they did then there would already be people providing such a service ).

You don't get any of the economies of scale that the organised tours might benefit from. You could only undercut them by undercharging for your time by some derisory amount AND/OR perhaps by running a dodgy campervan on a shoestring.

Effectively on duty all day & night : sharing a van with your clients. Fantastic . . . or maybe not.

Where's Mick, he has some hardwon experience of driving for an organised tour.

[Psamathe]

I would suspect a lot would depend on the cost. If you were charging £10 per LeJog (incl. everything) then you'd have loads of business whereas if charging £10k plus petrol plus expenses, etc. per LeJog then you might not have so many takers. (ignore the daft numbers used to illustrate the point).

If operating as a business (i.e. charging people) then I suspect there would be insurance impacts (e.g. if you gave somebody a lift for a day due to e.g. gear failure). Maybe extra safety checks (if you have paying guests sleeping in the camper) - I've no idea but would need checking into.

Ian

[robgul]

Having a bit of experience with E2E stuff I'm afraid that the two immediately preceding posts pretty much sum it all up - the key point being the "shared cost - to cover capital cost, salary and running costs" per rider doesn't stack up against alternative packages (unless it's a 20 bed motor-home) - AND the amount of down/dead time you'd have between possible trips (there's no way you would be working all the time) would have to be covered - to say nothing of the relatively short E2E season.

If you have a look at my website cycle-endtoend.org.uk and the links under Resources there's a list of E2E package providers that may be useful to assess market and pricing.

Rob

[rualexander]

You would be driving the van "for hire or reward" so as well as insurance implications you would need some form of operators licence, vehicle less than 9 seats so not as onerous as a full psv operator's licence but still significant hoops to jump through.

[eileithyia]

Others have answered some of the reservations i would have; insurance, liability, operators license, is it a business; so tax returns etc to do.... ABTA? Sounds great amongst friends, but once you start accepting payment????

[2360simmons]

Thanks you everyone for the comments, its just a pipe dream at the moment and the Insurance/driving licence had occurred to me. Just looked at one supported trip , camping in tents and charging approx £1350 per person ( includes breakfast and lunch) ... Four cyclists staying in my motorhome £800 x 4 ... £3200 minus costs... I still think it could be worthwhile but will investigate the Insurance issues. Thanks again.

[thirdcrank]

I think you would also have to get advice on your contractual position. If you are a one-man business, you have no back-up in case of illness etc. Self-employed builders and the like give back-word or wangle a few days respite. If somebody had big money tied up in a holiday on specific dates booked with you and you had call to it off I think they might be entitled to more than a refund. It's not a market where they could easily turn to another provider, especially at short notice. OTOH, if your booking terms could legally free you of that risk, I fancy you would be vulnerable to people who booked and then didn't show.

I'm not remotely an expert on this but AFAIK you need good lawyers to write a "heads I win, tails you lose" contract.

[PH]

It's a lovely idea, but I'm another one who doesn't think the numbers will stack up. You'd be offering a service for 4, you couldn't cater for 5 and the costs per person ramp up if it's 2 or 3. And 4 in a motorhome is pretty close, they'd have to be good friends and prepared to forgo the personal space they'd get in a hotel or even camping.
Those people charging £1350 for a camping trip are probably making some money, but i very much doubt they are getting rich from it. I'd be shocked if once you'd done a proper business plan you could get close to that price let alone beat it.

[robgul]

You used the expression "pipe dream" - sorry to be blunt but I think you need to drop the word pipe and treat it as a dream for all, and probably more, the reasons highlighted

But there could be a market for "freelance support" for long(er) distance support for cycle tourists - just doing the bag carrying between their accommodation, being at drink and food stops, possibly a bit of mechanic work . . . and doling out encouragement. I've done a few cycle tours as the "support man" with the van and it all worked.

As you've seen there are quite a few package operators for the E2E but they are all pretty costly (compared with a DIY effort) so pitching a cost between DIY & package could just work.

Obviously finding the people to support is a challenge but there are numerous websites and other resources to promote your service.

Good luck

Rob

[eileithyia]

Other consideration if you are providing food / cooking; food hygiene certificates etc?

[Si]

Another potential issue: you need to be careful how you advertise your product: get it wrong and you may be classed as offering package holidays (if you are offering transport and accommodation), in which case things get really complicated with how you take money - you have to start looking at escrow, customer holding bank accounts, etc. Leastways that was what it was like when I did it.

[Bowedw]

Why not look into the issues mentioned before with a positive attitude and factor in the hire of a Motorhome, this will prevent a large capital outlay, and should give a replacement vehicle should it break down.
These are cyclists we are discussing and should not be easily poisoned with porridge and toast. Campsites to have full showering/ toilet facilities and have a suitable venue close by for evening meals. A suitable establishment can also be enrolled for the mid day meal.
Cost is a consideration but some people may wish to pay for the advantage of everything taken care of while they just get on with the cycling.
Do not underprice the offer so you have some safety net to fall back on and on any case you have the experience of one journey under your belt.
Unlikely to bring you a fortune but small acorns and all that!

[eileithyia]

I agree that we may not be 'poisoned' by porridge and toast, but tell that to public health. Some years ago the couple who supplied our tea n cakes at time trials supported us while we marshalled the national cyclo-x. Basically they came along and fed us with hot drinks and cakes between our marshalling duties. It did not stop them drawing the attention of the local public health officers who were on duty, had they been selling the tea and cakes they would have been subject to a public health inspection.

[Bowedw]

What sad times we are living in with regard to all these jumped up petty officials with their petty rules. No wonder any real initiative is becoming rare. After saying that a well thought out venture should be able to tick all the boxes on their multi duplicated forms.
Time to get the local Church bring and buy raided.