Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Specific board for this popular undertaking.
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Just musing on this in the shower as one does.

Decades ago I ran my first (and only) half marathon.
Target was to get round in 2 hours which I didn't quite.
Then the "zero to hero" schedule took about 6 weeks from start to finish.
I can't recall ever having been fitter after the training and the race.

I was considering if the same time scale applied to a LEJOG/JOGLE having seen people talking about starting training one year with a plan to do the ride the following year. That would be 6-12 months training for the ride. This seems a bit excessive unless you are aiming for a very fast ride.

My experience of multi-day touring so far has been riding across the Netherlands to Germany in four days.
Rough mileage as first planned 32,46,41,29.
This changed a bit with accommodation arrangements plus a few mis-navigates during the trip but two 40-50 mile days.
It was very flat with mostly tail winds, though.
Training up for that was over roughly six weeks and included 3 days back to back of 40 miles plus, and a couple of 50 mile days.
The first day (not the longest) we were tired by the finish, to tired to go out in the evening.
Second day was better.
Third day we were going faster and faster at the end of the ride.
Fourth day was a short easy one.
From this I am guessing that if you can survive the first three days then after that your fitness will gradually improve.

OK.
JOGLE is the chosen direction because the first couple of days LEJOG are the hardest of the whole ride.
The plan is for a gentle 50 miles a day to combine the challenge with some sight seeing and not just "ride, eat, sleep".
On that basis a 6 week ramp up seems a reasonable approach as long as 3 * 50 miles back to back is achievable by the end of the training period.
[Realistically if you can manage 3 * 40 back to back then that is probably enough.]
This in turn suggests that one could wait until 6 weeks before the planned ride to see what the COVID situation is and book accommodation close to the planned ride time.

Noting that spring and summer rides should be lifting stamina levels anyway.

Does this seem like a reasonable plan?
I had to abandon the planned JOGLE last year because pandemic so I am wary of investing too much time up front this year.
September would be the preferred month.
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Jdsk »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 2:25pmMy experience of multi-day touring so far has been riding across the Netherlands to Germany in four days.
Rough mileage as first planned 32,46,41,29.
This changed a bit with accommodation arrangements plus a few mis-navigates during the trip but two 40-50 mile days.
It was very flat with mostly tail winds, though.
LittleGreyCat wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 2:25pm JOGLE is the chosen direction because the first couple of days LEJOG are the hardest of the whole ride.
The plan is for a gentle 50 miles a day to combine the challenge with some sight seeing and not just "ride, eat, sleep".
You've got lots of great experience.

The differences that I see are: much more climbing, longer days riding, and the overall duration.

Six weeks sounds plenty.

Is the bike already in the intended configuration, and are you happy with the gearing?

Jonathan
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1514
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 8:27pm
Location: Lancing, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by admin »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 2:25pm It was very flat with mostly tail winds, though.
LittleGreyCat wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 2:25pmJOGLE is the chosen direction because the first couple of days LEJOG are the hardest of the whole ride.
The reason most people go LEJOG is because of the prevailing winds being from the south west. LEJOG gives you the best chance of mostly tailwinds, JOGLE you'll probably have mostly headwinds.

Worth considering, at least.
rareposter
Posts: 1991
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by rareposter »

Everyone gets really wound up about "training" for stuff like this. It's just riding a bike. Anyone can ride a bike!

OK, fairly obviously, the more real-world riding experience (ie not turbo trainers and gym bikes) you have, the better but fitness is not the main part of it. What gets most people is logistics, packing, organisation, route planning, clothing choice etc.

Again - the more on-bike fitness you have, the more enjoyable it will be and (probably) the more time you'll have within the day for sight-seeing, general preparation for the next day, sorting out en-route mishaps like mechanicals or getting lost but anyone with a basic amount of bike fitness and preparation time can do any long-distance tour.

Problems arise in situations where the rider has spent ages on Zwift smashing out watts but knows nothing about real-world clothing or carrying kit or eating. Or where the rider has spent so long prepping kit and cutting off the handle of the toothbrush and fitting bikepacking gear that they've forgotten to actually ride a laden touring bike to find out how it feels.

Second the comment about riding LEJOG: It's just a nicer route, you get the "difficult" bits out of the way early on when you're fresh, you're more likely to have a tailwind and you finish in Scotland which is just stunning. If you're tired by that point after 2 weeks of cycling, you're on much quieter, more rolling roads and there are loads of distilleries! :lol:
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by PH »

rareposter wrote: 3 Apr 2021, 9:09pm Second the comment about riding LEJOG: It's just a nicer route, you get the "difficult" bits out of the way early on when you're fresh, you're more likely to have a tailwind and you finish in Scotland which is just stunning. If you're tired by that point after 2 weeks of cycling, you're on much quieter, more rolling roads and there are loads of distilleries! :lol:
The counter argument: You'll get fitter as you go, if you struggle in the South West you haven't got another 900 miles to ride. The difference in wind direction is minimal in the summer months, but strong winds are more likely to come from the North. For most people Lands End is easier to get home from. You're more likely to appreciate the scenery when you're fresh at the start than when you've had enough at the end.
For me, the bigger route decision is West or East of the Pennines, IMO that changes the ride more than the direction.
Back to training - I'd want to be doing as many days similar daily distance as possible in the six months before, some back to back. Then ideally a three day tour with the same kit a couple of months before. It's mental as well as physical training, knowing you've done it before is a confidence boost.
User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 2503
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Tigerbiten »

My experience from the start of long multi-month tour is ......
Week one is easy but gets steadily worse as you run your internal energy reserves down.
Weeks two and three are the hardest as you've drained your reserves. It's easy to cycle on the flat but you've no extra energy for hills. This is where ultra low gears come in very handy to crawl up hills.
From week four to week six it gets easier as you cycle yourself to a new level of fitness and rebuild your reserves.
From week six you start to wonder why the last five weeks where so hard and you're ready to up your daily distance to a new level.
So I'd train in six week blocks.
Coming from a background of around 100 miles a week since the last tour. Block one (early jan to mid feb) at around 100-150 miles per week.
Block two (mid feb to late march) upped to around 150-200 miles per week.
Start tour (early april to mid may) at around 200-250 miles per week. I'd still suffer a bit due to the added weight of the camping kit.
By week six (mid may to late june) I'd upper the mileage to around 250-300 miles a week and by week twelve (july onwards) I'd reached my maximum touring distance of just over 300 miles a week.
But I've bad knees so I've got to balance daily distance against pain and build up the distance gradually so I don't suffer to much.
It's also the reason I max out at just over 300 miles a week, if I try to up the distance further my knees start to ache to much.

YMMV .......... :D
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56359
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Mick F »

The best thing you can do, is ride your bike every day, the further the better. Just ride it.

The hard bit, as has already been said, is the planning of the route and the logistics plus organising the overnight stays. Costs come into this too, as it ain't cheap.

JOGLE is the best route. Second best, is to start at LE and ride to JOG, turn round and head back to LE ........ which is what I did in 2006.
Mick F. Cornwall
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Thanks to all so far.

On the fitness front I have noted that in previous years I have been hunting round for extensions to my normal circular to get up from 35 miles to 40-50 miles.
Last Wednesday I rode most (not all) of my short circular at just under 24 miles with a nice long rest in the middle and I was wiped by the time that I got home.
Therefore a serious ramp up of fitness levels required.

Having done a 4 day tour across the Netherlands and a "butterfly tour" in Norfolk I am comfortable with planning, packing, and riding a loaded bike.
I had the gearing on the Spa Wayfarer (already pretty low) lowered further in anticipation of the 2020 JOGLE which was cancelled.

My plan is for a supported tour anyway, with two bikes on the roof so I can change steeds for variety or if I have issues..
Self sufficient (carry everything) is the fall back option.

Edit: I intend to follow the "minimum climb" route from Cyle.Travel which comes in at around 1,000 miles. Planning 50 miles per day that should take around 20 days. Who knows, after the first 10 days I might be able to cycle a longer day. However the aim is to include sight seeing and leisure activities in the holiday (including some Speyside distilleries with luck).
Jamesh
Posts: 2963
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Jamesh »

The way I would look at it is to break the day down into three 20 mile rides with plenty of time in between.

When you do that the challenge becomes much more manageable.

The stops are as important as the riding for replenishment and recovery.

I bonked on my first two days because I didn't eat enough and had a missguided idea I had to press on. Lejog like ultra running has been described as a eating race...!

If your comfortable in the bike the rest is doable!

Most people give up due to some injury usual a chronic minor one due to not fitting the bike.

Cheers James
Nessie23
Posts: 91
Joined: 13 Sep 2020, 1:19pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Nessie23 »

Your training plan looks sensible and you have some good advice here. I would focus on getting the base level fitness to be able to confidently do back to back 50-mile days. Then the really important thing is to be able to cycle in all weathers, wind and rain. You are unlikely to cycle for 4-weeks in Sept in UK without encountering rain and headwinds. It is very easy to skip training rides when weather is inclement but this provides valuable experience for your mind and equipment. On a similar vein it is important you also get experience of the terrain. There are many short and sharp hills in the SE and lots of long but more gradual climbs in Scotland. Not sure where you are based but suggest your training mini-tour is held in a hilly area. Finally, ensure you practise your refuelling as JamesH suggested. This is often overlooked but is super-essential. Experiment on your training rides and do not try anything new on your JOGLE (stick to what you know works).
Hope all goes well and keep us posted....
Jamesh
Posts: 2963
Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Jamesh »

Dosen't sound like you have a deadline to get back by so just go with the flow. If you feel like taking a half day off then do so.

Most of all enjoy it and take in as much as possible. If you race rhrough in 8 - 10 days as I did, then you miss the glorious countryside our country has to offer.

Cheers
User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 2503
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Tigerbiten »

I've found I can roughly up my training distance by roughly 50% at the start of a tour and get away with it if the terrain does not get to lumpy.
I go from 35-40 miles a day training distance to close to 50 miles a day touring distance.
The more lumpy my training terrain is, the further I can extend my touring mileage.
But also the more lumpy my route is the less I can extend it.

Another thing I've found is that I now change my mindset when on tour.
Around home I like to try and blast up and down hills as fast as possible.
That gets the most out of my training rides.
But on tour I now try and climb hills using as little energy as possible.
I also start freewheeling sooner and don't over spin going downhill.
I also take longer on my warm up section of that days ride.
I'm now doing everything to save energy for the next day.
I soon got bored at being stuck at 6 mph going up a 1% hill into a 1 mph headwind due to not having any extra energy .......... :lol:

Luck ....... :D
LittleGreyCat
Posts: 1177
Joined: 7 Aug 2013, 8:31pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by LittleGreyCat »

Just a note on fuelling.

When I am in training (that is, can do 35 miles without major problems) I am also cycling fasted.
That is, I should be in ketosis and have no short term major energy issues.
Eating keto style means that there aren't any "quick fix" refuelling options like sweet tea and cake.
The benefits are mainly in stamina and lack of "bonk".
The main challenge is not to weaken and to stick to protein and fats.
Sprint (hah!) performance can suffer but slow and steady wins the day.
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by Jdsk »

LittleGreyCat wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 1:39pmThe main challenge is not to weaken and to stick to protein and fats.
Why do you group proteins with fats and not with carbohydrates?

Thanks

Jonathan
User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 3551
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Time required to train for (gentle) JOGLE

Post by TrevA »

Jdsk wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 1:55pm
LittleGreyCat wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 1:39pmThe main challenge is not to weaken and to stick to protein and fats.
Why do you group proteins with fats and not with carbohydrates?

Thanks

Jonathan
Because Keto is Low Carb, eating no more than 20-50g of carbs per day. You can teach your body to run off it’s own fat stores (or the fat that you eat). Most people have around 100,000 calories worth of energy stored as body fat, but only 2 hours worth of carb (glycogen) stores.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Post Reply