Paper versus GPS

Specific board for this popular undertaking.
freeflow
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Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by freeflow »

A GPS only shows (at any reasonable scale) the immediate area. Great for knowing where to turn next, or what's next door. Far better than a map for following a twisting, complex route that you've pre-planned (or has been found by the device). Not so good for checking what's over the next hill and whether it's worth the bother, or remembering your whole trip, or looking before you depart to see what it will be like.
But on my smartphone I have the whole of the UK I can scale from where my route is just a small part of the screen through to the point where 100m is the width of my screen. Depending on scale, the detail of the map is equivalent or better than OS maps. If I want my phone will also show me where shops and cafes are located (or other points of interest), something that maps don't do. I really do think you should try to move to the modern era.
mattheus
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by mattheus »

freeflow wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 1:31pm
A GPS only shows (at any reasonable scale) the immediate area. Great for knowing where to turn next, or what's next door. Far better than a map for following a twisting, complex route that you've pre-planned (or has been found by the device). Not so good for checking what's over the next hill and whether it's worth the bother, or remembering your whole trip, or looking before you depart to see what it will be like.
But on my smartphone I have the whole of the UK I can scale from where my route is just a small part of the screen through to the point where 100m is the width of my screen. Depending on scale, the detail of the map is equivalent or better than OS maps. If I want my phone will also show me where shops and cafes are located (or other points of interest), something that maps don't do. I really do think you should try to move to the modern era.
... until you drop it in a stream.

I can't agree with this - but why would you care?? :-) Give someone an OS Landranger map. Now tell them they can only view it through a 7" porthole; which arrangement would they prefer?
[Yes, I've used a GPS extensively - across Europe - and occasionally used my phone for navigation purposes (only while stationary). So, yes, I have moved to the modern era, thankyouverymuch. It's just that some old stuff works well e.g. bicycle instead of car/motorbike!]
freeflow
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by freeflow »

I'm sorry but your reply indicates that your thinking is stuck in the past. I talked about mapping you talk about gps, two completely different animals. You refer to a 7 inch window, isn't that rather reminiscent of a folded map. What would I rather have, a wet map or a wet waterproof smartphone. Am I aware of the power limitations of my phone - yes. Have I had to refold a paper map in a storm whilst at the top of a mountain in the lake district, yes.
mattheus
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by mattheus »

freeflow wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 2:57pm I'm sorry but your reply indicates that your thinking is stuck in the past.
No need to apologise - you're only wrong :- )
Norman H
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Norman H »

Paper versus GPS? I don't think it's an either or choice, and from the answers on here its clear that neither is there a one size fits all solution.

I use both GPS and paper maps although I rarely use a folded paper map these days. Instead I'd recommend digital raster mapping, I use Memory Map for GB OS maps and *IGN French maps, and Mapyx Quo for Irish OS maps, other brands are available. The advantages over conventional maps, apart from the price, are the associated software which is excellent for route planning, and the licence to print unlimited paper copies for personal use. Routes can be created on a PC and exported as gpx files and A4 printed copies fit conveniently into a bar bag map case.

I bought my first GPS for use on the bike back in 2010 when I rode LEJOG. Back then I chose a Memory Map unit, mostly because of its compatibility with the MM maps which I already owned, it wouldn't be my first choice now. Navigation isn't turn by turn but simply involves following the highlighted gpx track on the screen. A bit like having the map on your knees and following the route with your finger. The unit performed faultlessly for LEJOG and still occasionally gets used both on and off the bike.

These days MM no longer make GPS units but I would still recommend their mapping software, or something similar. The licences that comes with both MM and Mapyx maps are for use on up to 5 devices and they both have apps for android and iOS, although sadly the Mapyx App isn't currently compatible with its Irish maps.

The big limitation of OS raster mapping on a small screened device is the inability to see the bigger picture, especially when you wander off course. Zoom out and detail increasingly becomes difficult to read. To some extent this limitation can be overcome by carrying maps of different scales but in my view vector mapping is much more suited to small screened handlebar mounted GPS units. For this reason I subsequently bought a Garmin eTrex 30 and later a Mio Cyclo 505. Both units allow turn by turn navigation but like others I much prefer to follow a gpx track on the screen.

*IGN maps are no longer available from MM.
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Cowsham
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Cowsham »

Jdsk wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 12:33pm As always I recommend becoming familiar with as many tools as possible, and then picking the best for the task...
Cowsham wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 12:22pm I prefer having a paper map especially a good holiday ( holiday makers ) map of the area for two reasons.

Firstly there is usually more information about lanes walkways, points of interest and attractions on the map.

Secondly it won't drain my phone battery.
Have tried you high resolution eg OS maps on 'phones and dedicated mobile devices?

Jonathan
I have that ME-MAPS thing on my phone and paid for maps of places I've been but I found it a bit limited for points of interest and that sort of thing -- OK if you are stuck without a signal but never really put it to any good use. --

I'm scared of putting my smart phone on the handlebars in case it falls / I fall ( it would have been toast in that last off -- my front light was ) -- it usually resides in my back pack so my jacket pocket sweat doesn't do it in either ---

so I found it easier to fold a holiday map up to the area I needed and have it on the top of my kit on the rear rack -- I've since bought a handle bar bag it'll strap to now but it works OK on rear rack --- I just stop and have a look at it when I need to.
I am here. Where are you?
mattheus
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by mattheus »

Norman H wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 3:51pm Paper versus GPS? I don't think it's an either or choice, and from the answers on here its clear that neither is there a one size fits all solution.

I use both GPS and paper maps although I rarely use a folded paper map these days. Instead I'd recommend digital raster mapping, I use Memory Map for GB OS maps and *IGN French maps, and Mapyx Quo for Irish OS maps, other brands are available. The advantages over conventional maps, apart from the price, are the associated software which is excellent for route planning, and the licence to print unlimited paper copies for personal use. Routes can be created on a PC and exported as gpx files and A4 printed copies fit conveniently into a bar bag map case.
Well exactly - just about everyone on this forum will have used devices connected to the internet (and the mapping thereon) to plan rides (either wholly or partly).
Deciding to only carry paper maps WHILE ON THE BIKE, or indeed keeping your smart-phone in your luggage for safety/battery life is a very poor indication of a rider that is stuck in the dark ages, tech-wise :P
Oldjohnw
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Oldjohnw »

How is enjoying paper maps whilst also utilising technology, just not fully depending on it, being stuck in the past?

I know it isn't cycling but Mountain Rescue claim that one of the major cause of call outs is people without paper maps, compasses and the ability to use them. And MRT are pretty up together technology-wise.
John
Psamathe
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Psamathe »

Ron wrote: 23 Jun 2021, 11:10pm
Tiggertoo wrote: 19 Jun 2021, 3:46pmDoes anyone use anything else with good results?
I relied mainly on the signposts, as long as you know which town you want to get to you'll be fine, and a pocket compass helps too.
You highlight how different people enjoy different aspects to touring. For me I enjoy the ride, looking around at wildlife, scenery, etc. and navigating is just something that has to be done to arrive at a campsite - so I delegate that to my GPS. But others enjoy the navigation and achievement, map reading, etc. And "each to their own" and it's great how an activity (touring) can provide different interests to different people.

Ian
Oldjohnw
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Oldjohnw »

Some, including me, simply love maps. Nothing to do with being old fashioned or stuck in the past. I use my OS map on my phone but always carry a paper map because I enjoy using it.

Such a pity when people condemn those who do things differently to them.
John
Psamathe
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Psamathe »

Oldjohnw wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 6:02pm Some, including me, simply love maps. Nothing to do with being old fashioned or stuck in the past. I use my OS map on my phone but always carry a paper map because I enjoy using it.

Such a pity when people condemn those who do things differently to them.
I also love maps and hiking (years ago) found navigating using them (plus compass) no problem. These days I love studying maps to check out routes but underway I don't want to be stopping to check map to decide if this is the turn or not. I'd rather look at the countryside I'd travelling through. Each to their own.

When my Wahoo became too much of a disaster to use for navigating I still managed fine for a couple of days (getting to city with shop that stocked Garmin), using maps on iPhone & iPad but without "directions".

Ian
rareposter
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by rareposter »

Psamathe wrote: 24 Jun 2021, 7:35pm I also love maps and hiking (years ago) found navigating using them (plus compass) no problem. These days I love studying maps to check out routes but underway I don't want to be stopping to check map to decide if this is the turn or not. I'd rather look at the countryside I'd travelling through. Each to their own.

Ian
Same here - I'll always pick up the relevant OS 1:50,000 before staying anywhere in the UK, use it to check out likely routes, points of interest and so on. But when I'm riding, I want to be looking around at the scenery, not stopping to check a map every couple of junctions (and this applies even more off road where a paper map may not necessarily show every turn of a track but an online map and route planner will do).

A GPS will also tell me if I'm off route straight away - I do remember occasions in the pre-GPS days where I'd be riding along for miles thinking "hmm, I must be getting near [location] now..."
Nope, I took a wrong turn 5 miles back. Oh...
Tiggertoo
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Tiggertoo »

Jdsk asked: Which Montana, and what do you see as the advantages and disadvantages compared to an Edge, please?
Mick F, can you answer this?
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Mick F »

Sorry, not been on this section for a few days.

My Montana is a 600 bought as a recon unit from Burrows GPS.

Bought it quite some years ago and the power on/off button in the plastic outer casing eventually cracked. All was fine other than the crack.
Got in touch with Garmin UK and they got me to send it back and they sold me a recon unit dirt cheap.
That arrived, but within a week or three, it stopped acquiring satellites, so they asked me to return it and they sent me another free of charge and refunded my postage.

Each time you send one back for repair, they don't want the Li battery pack, and when they replace the device, they send it with a new one ............... so now I have three!

Any road up ...........
That's all history.
They don't do the 600 any more, but a more updated set of models ........... but they ain't cheap.

Read these.
https://www.tramsoft.ch/gps/garmin_montana600_en.html

or more up to date ..........
https://www.gpsrchive.com/Montana%207x0/index.htm
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Jdsk »

Tiggertoo wrote: 25 Jun 2021, 4:02pm Jdsk asked: Which Montana, and what do you see as the advantages and disadvantages compared to an Edge, please?
I'm not interested in competition and performance data.

First I'd exclude on screen properties and navigation options.

After that I'd pay particular attention to mass, battery options and life, and cost.

Jonathan

(Currently using an Edge 1000, and if I were buying now that would be a 1030.)
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