Paper versus GPS

Specific board for this popular undertaking.
Tiggertoo
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Joined: 2 Jun 2021, 4:52pm

Paper versus GPS

Post by Tiggertoo »

Being an Audax cyclist, I have always used paper cue sheets rather than relying on miniscule screens on GPS devices, but there are so many immediate turns down by-lanes and by-ways on routes required to do LeJog, that I am reconsidering this, particularly with the possible expectation of rain messing up my paper route sheets.
I have a Wahoo Elemnt that I use solely as a bike computer - MPH, climbing, total ride time - but the screen is far too small for instant reading, unless wearing reading glasses - which I do not do when riding.
Does anyone use anything else with good results?
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Mick F
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Mick F »

My first JOGLE in 1994, I used paper notes, a "herring bone" route for each day, as well as a the relevant set of maps cut out of a road atlas.

Subsequent End2Ends I used GPS devices. 2006 and 2010. First with a Garmin Edge 305, then an Edge 705, but still with the cut-out road atlas pages.

Since then, I've bought a Garmin Montana. Excellent device with a huge screen, and all my riding is with that now, and I doubt I will ever bother with a road atlas again.
Mick F. Cornwall
Psamathe
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Psamathe »

Tiggertoo wrote: 19 Jun 2021, 3:46pm Being an Audax cyclist, I have always used paper cue sheets rather than relying on miniscule screens on GPS devices, but there are so many immediate turns down by-lanes and by-ways on routes required to do LeJog, that I am reconsidering this, particularly with the possible expectation of rain messing up my paper route sheets.
I have a Wahoo Elemnt that I use solely as a bike computer - MPH, climbing, total ride time - but the screen is far too small for instant reading, unless wearing reading glasses - which I do not do when riding.
Does anyone use anything else with good results?
My 1st tour (France, Belgium, Germany & Netherlands) I started with a Wahoo using turn by turn directions but it let me down badly (not from hardware failures but poor software/services https://psamathe.net/wahoo-elemnt-navigation-review/). So mid-tour I had to get what I could and the only device the shop had was a Garmin 1030. For my use I could have managed with a lower-end/cheaper device - but you can only buy what the shop has! I got on really well with the Garmin and if buying such a device now I would buy the same (or latest version).

I think budget is a big aspect to "what is most appropriate" (the Garmin 1030 was expensive, paying for loads of features I'd never use).

Changing device mid-tour meant I didn't have the internet or battery to experiment with web route creation, download, etc. so switched to creating routes on the Garmin itself. This worked surprisingly well - routes not as good as from cycle.travel but still fine for what I was doing and on a bike (no inappropriate roads). Following year I'd worked out route downloads so used cycle.travel to create the routes and download to Garmin was easy.

All navigation I did using the device was with turn by turn directions which for me worked well (good warning and pretty clear about turns).

Ian
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simonineaston
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by simonineaston »

Does anyone use anything else with good results?
It's not really asnwering your question directly but is relevant nevertheless... I resisted buying cycling-specific eyewear for ages for various reasons, but in the end I settled for a pair of spex that closely suited my cycling needs which included the ability to read the screen of a GPS device and it was a game changer (for the better, obs!).
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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Paulatic
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Paulatic »

The Lezyne Mega has a large B&W display which my failing eyesight can read.
A lot of the route can be simple and a good route sheet would suffice providing you don’t loose your place. All the best Audax route sheets were written by people who knew the course intimately and ridden it many times.
However there were a few places, Bristol is one which springs to mind, that I’d have been totally lost without the Lezyne.
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
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freeflow
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by freeflow »

I use my smartphone and battery pack for audaxing and have done so since around 2013 when I finally ditched Bryton/Garmin.

The battery pack takes 4x18650 lithium batteries and provides a 2 amp usb output plus 8.4 volt jack. I run my phone and one of my lights off the battery pack.

The phone has a 6.9 inch diagonal screen which I use with Locus maps. I have sufficient 18650 batteries to be able to carry up to 5 sets of spare batteries but can usually get round a 300km Audax using only one spare set and still have a phone charged at 100%.

For rain the phone mount allows me to easily put the phone in a plastic bag. The top tube the bag is from planet X and has plenty of room for the battery pack and at least 3 mini pork pies (yum yum )

Some photos of my setup (and yes, I haven't yet got around to cutting the steerer tube)
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Tiggertoo
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Tiggertoo »

I admit it is a question of not being able to read the device screens on the road, and even my android screen in the sun is impossible to see clearly. With paper copies I can print as large a font as I need, but there is always the issue of moving the paper through the rollers to bring up the next turn without having to stop the bike to do so.
A couple of years ago I rode from Lands End to Plymouth on the first day of LeJog - before a family emergency caused me to leave, and tried prescription glasses under sun glasses at that time with a borrowed Garmin. It was sort of okay, but not ideal in anyway.
What I really need is a bigger screen - either with freeflows smartphone set-up (will that last the 9-10 hours required for one Lejog leg?) or the Garmin Montana suggested by Mick F, or a bloody great magnifying glass mounted on top of my Wahoo Elemnt.
Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas so far.
8) 8) 8)
Psamathe
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Psamathe »

I agree about phone screens in the sun but my Garmin screen seems fine in bright sunlight. The 1030 is one of the larger screen Edge GPS but it's still a lot smaller than a phone. But if you are using turn-by-turn directions then as you approach a turn the unit beeps and displays e.g. "Turn right in 200 ft" (although "turn right" is a large symbol). I rarely bother to look at the route line plotted over the map and my trace - though even that is fine (I found it better with the Garmin colour screen than with Wahoo mono screen).

Also I think my Garmin 1030 is said to have a batter life of 20 hrs (can't remember but I've never seen mine below 70%) and recharging seems very quick.

But there is a lot of individual choice/preference in this, different people have different eyesight, ways of riding/navigating, etc. so what works for me may not work for somebody else.

Ideally if you know somebody with a unit you think a possibility to see if you can borrow it for a ride (create a route on e.g. cycle.travel, load it to GPS and ride the route) and see how you get on with it.

Ian
freeflow
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by freeflow »

200km Audax takes me 12 hours because I like my tea stops. I start with a fully charged phone and finish with a fully charged phone and a somewhat depleted battery pack. If you are doing Lejog you'd need a charger to recharge batteries overnight. If you have long stretches with no turns you can turn the screen off to extend battery life as the screen consumes about 90 % of the power used.
puffin
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by puffin »

I'm out on a LEJOG as we speak and encountered a GPS issue...day 3 I accidentally wiped or reset my Garmin Edge, thereby losing all my routes, and having to master a Slavic language if I wanted to access the device. I fell back to using my phone and Ride With GPS, expecting to have to take my phone out of y pocket to look at at junctions. Imagine my surprise (to quote the Viz Magazine letters page) when I found it spoke to me, and spoke to me really effectively; it even got me through Edinburgh unscaved. I've left it in my pocket ever since.
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simonineaston
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by simonineaston »

I accidentally wiped or reset my Garmin Edge
Ouch! My sympathy! I'll have to add that to my list of the relative pros and cons of 'leccy devices versus paper maps.
On the other hand, I took an old paper map with me to France not long ago and stopped for a coffee on route to Britanny and was talking about the route with the prop. who pottered off for a biro to draw in the new bridge that was missing from my (ancient) map... :roll:
the perils of ancient paper maps...
the perils of ancient paper maps...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Jdsk
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Jdsk »

Putting aside paper and electronics, and dedicated devices and smart 'phones... I'd suggest mocking up some screens by printing from advertisements and manuals and trying them on the bike. With a bit of effort on accurate scaling you'll be able to check both distance to screen with whatever combination of glasses and lenses you'll ever use and size of text and map elements.

Jonathan (currently an Edge 1000 for touring and that would be an Edge 1030 if I were buying now, and size did matter)
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simonineaston
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by simonineaston »

I recall a chum used to use a bar-bag, with either a separate or maybe, built-in to the lid, map sleeve. Meant you had to stop every [insert distance depending on the map scale] to trun to a new section. I think one of the down-sides was the crinkly plastic that the see-through panel was made from, but plastic tech. has come on a lot since then (early '80s). I'm so excited by that recollection that I'm off now to see what can be bought these days!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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simonineaston
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by simonineaston »

oh yes... !
complete with rollers :-)
complete with rollers :-)
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Enigmadick
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Re: Paper versus GPS

Post by Enigmadick »

Struggling to understand what could be easier than this?

I'm sure someone will tell me though.
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