Another reason to boycott LIDL

Specific board for this popular undertaking.
birkhead
Posts: 121
Joined: 29 Apr 2007, 10:41pm

Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby birkhead » 17 Oct 2014, 2:35pm

from STV report

A lorry driver who fell asleep at the wheel killing two cyclists taking part in a charity ride from Land's End to John o'Groats has been jailed for eight and a half years.
Robert Palmer, 32, hit Andrew McMenigall, 47, and Toby Wallace, 36, who died almost instantly in the crash on the A30 in Newquay, Cornwall, on July 2 last year.
The pair, who worked for Aberdeen Asset Management, were 40 miles into the 960-mile bike ride to raise money for two charities when they were struck by Palmer's white Renault lorry.

At an earlier hearing at Truro Crown Court, Palmer, from Bude, Cornwall, pleaded guilty to two charges of causing death by dangerous driving.
He also admitted a further charge of dangerous driving in relation to a second similar crash weeks later on the A30 near Okehampton.
At the time of the crash Palmer - a night time delivery driver for Frys Logistics Ltd in Launceston - had little sleep because instead of resting during the day he was working on vehicle maintenance for the firm.
He was also habitually using his iPhone to send text messages while carrying out deliveries for discount store Lidl between Cornwall and Weston-super-Mare, the court heard.

Jailing the father-of-one, Judge Christopher Harvey Clark QC said: "The evidence is at the time when this accident occurred you had almost certainly fallen asleep but it is equally clear you were disregarding the rules of the road by texting continuously and it would seem at length.

"You completely ignored their presence on the road. In the words of prosecutor Mr Lee you mowed them down.
"It is clear that at the time when this tragic accident occurred you were suffering from extreme fatigue and exhaustion. You should not have been driving at all at that time. You failed to ensure that you took sufficient rests. People should not drive when they are feeling very sleepy or as you were totally exhausted.
"All the indications are that long before the fatal collision you must or should have been aware of your condition.
"It is also clear - although I accept not a primary cause of the accident - you had been inappropriately and illegally using your mobile telephone.
"You were using it habitually. People who use a handheld mobile telephone and text while driving carry a terrible risk to other road users. The reason's perfectly obvious - a driver's attention to the road is disturbed by his or her texting."

Palmer was also banned from driving for ten years and ordered to take an extended driving test.

The judge said both Mr McMenigall and Mr Wallace were "fine and good men" who were very successful in both their careers and personal lives.
The judge told Palmer: "Both men were experienced and safe cyclists. It is clear at the relevant time they were visible to other road users.
"Both men wanted to raise money for a truly worthy cause. They were the kind of people who make this world a better place for the rest of us.
"They met their deaths as a result of your criminal actions. I recognise the terrible loss to their families and friends. They cannot be replaced.
"Your driving involved a deliberate decision to ignore or a flagrant disregard for the rules of the road and an apparent disregard for the danger caused to others."

Families
Mr McMenigall lived in Edinburgh with his wife Anne and their two children, Jennifer, aged 15, and 12-year-old Lucy. Mr Wallace, who was married to Claire, lived in Philadelphia where he worked for Aberdeen Asset Management.
Their bike ride was to raise money for the Kirsten Scott Memorial Trust, named after a 25-year-old colleague who died from cancer in 2011.
Prosecutor Philip Lee told the court how the fatal crash happened at 8.30am as Palmer returned to his depot in his white articulated Renault lorry.

The experienced lorry driver had left Cornwall the previous evening to pick up goods for Lidl at its depot in Weston-super-Mare and had driven overnight to deliver them to Penzance and Hayle.
Other motorists had seen Mr McMenigall and Mr Wallace cycling along the road in single file wearing reflective clothing.
Drivers had also noticed Palmer's erratic driving on the 50mph A30 and he weaved across the dual carriageway and ran over the rumble strips alongside the hard shoulder. One car driver had overtaken Palmer's lorry and moved over to the other lane to give the cyclists room as he passed them.
Mr Lee said: "The lorry had not moved out of the inside lane at all and stuck very close to the rumble strips. In his rear mirror he basically saw the lorry mow both of the cyclists down."
Between 5pm on June 30 and 6am on July 1 Palmer had sent over 150 text messages, the court head.
In one text exchange about his lack of sleep, Palmer said: "I've survived so far."
Later, he texted: "Worked till 3pm had about three hours' kip. Now back on Lidl run."
The court was also told of another incident weeks later in the early hours of September 20 as Palmer returned from Weston-super-Mare.
As he drove up a steep hill on the A30 in Devon he ploughed into the back of lorry driver Brian Rabey's vehicle. Mr Rabey was lucky to escape with his life after his vehicle overturned, leaving him with minor injuries.
William Sellick, defending, said Palmer was truly sorry for what he had done and had "blighted the lives of two families" and it is unlikely he would ever drive professionally again.

Anne McMenigall and Claire Wallace, the widows of the two cyclists, issued a joint statement after the case.
They said: "There are no words to describe the devastation and loss that we, and both families, feel following the deaths of our husbands. They were exceptional and giant men in every sense of the word.
"It is a tragedy that so many other families are also mourning loved ones who have been killed on Britain's roads, particularly when many of these deaths were completely avoidable.
"So many of these families do not ever see a sentence brought against the person who has killed their husband, their child, their brother, their father.
"UK transport laws are lenient, charges are difficult and onerous to attain, and less and less resource is being dedicated to road traffic collisions.
"Toby and Andrew loved cycling. We believe that the rise in the popularity of the sport must be met by those with the responsibility to improve our transport infrastructure and improve education for drivers.
"We would like to thank everyone who has supported us and been involved in getting us this far."

Feedback: We want your feedback on our site. If you've got questions, spotted an inaccuracy or just want to share some ideas about our news service, please email us on web@stv.tv.

Download: The STV News app is Scotland's favourite and is available for iPhone from the Apple store and for Android from Google Play. Download it today and continue to enjoy STV News wherever you are.

DaveGos
Posts: 245
Joined: 13 Nov 2009, 12:40pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby DaveGos » 17 Oct 2014, 3:00pm

Don't think its Lidls fault . Lidl and Aldi are greener than the big boys , with more local stores , no free plastic bags . Not sure why you should boycott them

Psamathe
Posts: 10606
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby Psamathe » 17 Oct 2014, 3:57pm

Tragic accident but ... If the e.g. a Royal Mail driver had an accident would you boycott would you boycott my local pub because the Royal Mail make deliveries for them.

From my understanding of the report Lidl's involvement was only in that the drivers were employed by a 3rd party who had been contracted by Lidl. (And assuming my understanding is correct) the way that works is that the contractor is responsible for safety, vehicle maintenance, operations, etc. Basically they would either be operating the warehouse and then delivering the goods or just collecting and delivering the goods from a distribution centre. The reason supermarkets often sub-contract their logistics is that it is not their area of expertise and they prefer let others deal with it all, supermarkets focussing on the retailing.

So if contracted, then those operations are not the responsibility of Lidl and boycotting them for a failure of a 3rd party would not seem fair and would not really achieve anything.

Ian

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 17 Oct 2014, 4:19pm

I disagree. You cannot simply wash your hands and place all the blame on the contractor. Otherwise its a bit like saying having your products made by child labour in Asia is not your problem but the sub-contractors.

maxcherry
Posts: 664
Joined: 22 Mar 2011, 5:53pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby maxcherry » 17 Oct 2014, 4:20pm

Why are you blaming Lidil?

Do you want to get sued for slander!?

Good grief! Turn a tragic incident into a boycott of a company that has nothing
to do with the incident
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 17 Oct 2014, 4:28pm

maxcherry wrote:Why are you blaming Lidil?

Do you want to get sued for slander!?

Good grief! Turn a tragic incident into a boycott of a company that has nothing
to do with the incident



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7066019.stm

Why are they blaming Gap do I hear you say?

maxcherry
Posts: 664
Joined: 22 Mar 2011, 5:53pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby maxcherry » 17 Oct 2014, 4:52pm

TonyR wrote:
maxcherry wrote:Why are you blaming Lidil?

Do you want to get sued for slander!?

Good grief! Turn a tragic incident into a boycott of a company that has nothing
to do with the incident



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7066019.stm

Why are they blaming Gap do I hear you say?




No! I did not say 'Gap' what's wrong with you?

Why is it Lidls fault?
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 17 Oct 2014, 6:10pm

maxcherry wrote:
No! I did not say 'Gap' what's wrong with you?

Why is it Lidls fault?


For the same reason it was Gap's fault. As a company you are responsible for ensuring the standards of your suppliers. Lidl and Gap failed to do that and both should be called out for it.

maxcherry
Posts: 664
Joined: 22 Mar 2011, 5:53pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby maxcherry » 17 Oct 2014, 6:31pm

No it is not Lidls fault. They hired a contractor, the contractor failed in there duty, as well as the driver of the vehicle.
It is on Gaps fault if they knew of the standards of the factory and age of the workers.

This thread is naughty.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 17 Oct 2014, 6:53pm

maxcherry wrote:No it is not Lidls fault. They hired a contractor, the contractor failed in there duty, as well as the driver of the vehicle.
It is on Gaps fault if they knew of the standards of the factory and age of the workers.

This thread is naughty.


Perhaps a little consistency would help. Choose one of:

Its not Lidl's fault. They hired a contractor, the contractor failed in their duty as well as the driver of the vehicle
Its not Gaps fault. They hired a constractor, the contractor failed in their duty as well as the manager of the factory.

OR

It is Gaps fault. They used a contractor who used underage labour.
It is Lidl's fault. They used a contractor who used drivers who were overhours, over tired and texting on their phone.

You don't work for Lidl by any chance do you?

Flinders
Posts: 3014
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby Flinders » 17 Oct 2014, 7:50pm

I'd say there was a clear difference. Lidl can't check on the amount of sleep a subcontractor's employee has been getting, and would be reasonable to expect the law was being obeyed. But factory working conditions can be seen easily by just walking in to the building, and no assumptions could reasonably be made that a factory abroad was working to UK conditions without inspecting it.

maxcherry
Posts: 664
Joined: 22 Mar 2011, 5:53pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby maxcherry » 17 Oct 2014, 8:06pm

TonyR wrote:
maxcherry wrote:No it is not Lidls fault. They hired a contractor, the contractor failed in there duty, as well as the driver of the vehicle.
It is on Gaps fault if they knew of the standards of the factory and age of the workers.

This thread is naughty.


Perhaps a little consistency would help. Choose one of:

Its not Lidl's fault. They hired a contractor, the contractor failed in their duty as well as the driver of the vehicle
Its not Gaps fault. They hired a constractor, the contractor failed in their duty as well as the manager of the factory.

OR

It is Gaps fault. They used a contractor who used underage labour.
It is Lidl's fault. They used a contractor who used drivers who were overhours, over tired and texting on their phone.

You don't work for Lidl by any chance do you?




No it is not Lidls fault. The reason why it is not has been explained to you reputedly
in this thread, and you are to fixated on being 'Right' even though you are in the wrong.

I have already explained Gap.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby beardy » 17 Oct 2014, 8:13pm

The law probably was being obeyed (wrt to the driver's hours) as it is only the driving hours which are specifically restricted by the law not the working hours. A loophole used by many companies, within reason it is fairly valid as the exercise of loading and unloading can invigorate and wake you up after a long spell in the cab.

Normally until an accident occurs any complaints about having to do such work fall on deaf ears, then after an accident the driver is blamed.

User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 7853
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Cully
Contact:

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby al_yrpal » 17 Oct 2014, 8:47pm

Pathetic comment.. Nothing to do wth Lidl

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

Postboxer
Posts: 1477
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby Postboxer » 17 Oct 2014, 9:58pm

It's a shockingly short sentence, as is the defence lawyer saying of his client, 'it is unlikely he would ever drive professionally again'. It really should be the case that they are banned from driving for life, especially professionally.