Another reason to boycott LIDL

Specific board for this popular undertaking.
JohnWL
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby JohnWL » 26 Oct 2014, 8:37am

You were not accused of defamation - Ian said , quite reasonably , that what you wrote was probably defamatory. There is a distinction.

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Si
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby Si » 26 Oct 2014, 11:08am

We were asked to play nicely several pages ago. If we cannot discuss this politely then we may find it is binned.....and the reams of stuff that you have typed will all have been a waste of time. Your choice :wink: .

But ask yourself - what are you hoping to achieve in this thread....do you think that it will have any influence of lidl, frys or road safety, or has it just got to the point where winning the argument is the most important thing for you?

TonyR
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 26 Oct 2014, 12:17pm

Si wrote:But ask yourself - what are you hoping to achieve in this thread....do you think that it will have any influence of lidl, frys or road safety, or has it just got to the point where winning the argument is the most important thing for you?


What I am hoping to achieve is debate of a wider issue based on this as an example. HGVs are disproportionately responsible for cyclist deaths on the roads in the UK. The focus to date has been solely on the the driver, not the responsibilites of the companies that employ or engage the drivers or their customers.

When City of London police did spot checks on 12 HGVs in 2008 including 5 Olympics construction lorries they found a 100% of them breaking the law. The offences included overweight loads (2 cases), mechanical breaches (5 cases), driver hours breaches (5 cases), mobile phone use while driving (2 cases), driving without insurance (2 cases) and no operator license (1 case). Last year spot checks in Wales of 43 HGVs found 80% breaking the law from overloaded and defective vehicles to drivers without a license. Who in their right mind would employ a driver with 20 disqualifications including three drink driving offences, to drive an HGV in London where they went on to kill a cyclist while drunk driving? Its just not good enough and needs cleaning up (IMHO!)

It seems to me that much of the responsibility lies with the operators who cut corners, ignore regulations, set unrealistic delivery schedules and routes and put pressure on their drivers and the customers who are prepared to engage such companies.

Those operators are driven in part by indifference and industry attitudes but also by the demands placed on them by their customers. Personally I think it is time while keeping the spotlight on the drivers to also turn it onto industry practices and the responsibilities of the operators and their customers in much the same way as has happened in other areas of corporate responsibility. I am, I must say, quite surprised though to find myself in a minority here in wanting to extend the chain of responsibility, especially when it has led to the deaths of two cyclists. I am heartened though that at least the police seem to be taking it seriously and investigating Frys but it is only public pressure that can be exerted on Lidl and other customers in general to ensure they only use responsible contractors.

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TrevA
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TrevA » 26 Oct 2014, 8:00pm

TonyR wrote:
TrevA wrote:Perhaps we should boycott Asda too ?

A few years ago, a lorry driver working for an Asda sub-contractor ran down a cyclist from behind on the A50 south of Derby. He was found to be over his hours and excessively tired.


If you're talking about the Karl Austin case then that's not true. The driver is reported as having an exemplary driving record. If it was some other case I'd be interested to know which one.
http://road.cc/content/news/56835-lorry ... capes-jail


No it wasn't the Karl Austin case. It was a few years ago, but I remember the details distinctly. I'll attempt to find the details.

ukdodger
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby ukdodger » 4 Nov 2014, 7:45pm

Postboxer wrote:It's a shockingly short sentence, as is the defence lawyer saying of his client, 'it is unlikely he would ever drive professionally again'. It really should be the case that they are banned from driving for life, especially professionally.


They always are shockingly short. Two men dead. Two grieving families. Eight years and he'll be out in less. The judicial system in this country serves the interests of the wrongdoer not the wronged.

tyreon
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby tyreon » 25 Dec 2014, 12:47pm

What an interesting debate+++. And,as usual,one that I have come to somewhat late.

Thanks to all participates. Educational.

I have just watched The High Cost of Low Pricing,the Walmart documentary. Informative!

I remain uneducated and ill-informed about Lidl,or Aldi. I didn't know German TU had some issues with them.

Looking over all the comments I can see many reasoned arguments. I can see why there is going to be little chance of having T Blair and George Bush to appear at the Hague on any alleged War Crimes,still less any conviction! It does seem amazing,but I think you can get away with murder!

Darwin Rules! Dutch Auctions! I can see all the arguments. Being a small guy and having bin fed all the clap-trap from 'above',please forgive me when 'jury's out' I'll still stick with the underdog. Very interesting dialogue.

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Erudin
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby Erudin » 18 Nov 2015, 12:24am

"Traffic Commissioner Sarah Bell has revoked the HGV operator's licence for Frys Logistics Limited, saying it put profit before the law with a lack of regard to the rules which contributed to the death of End-to-End cyclists Andrew McMenigall and Toby Wallace 28 months ago."

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/20151117-profit-supercedes-road-safety

TonyR
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 18 Nov 2015, 10:18am

Erudin wrote:"Traffic Commissioner Sarah Bell has revoked the HGV operator's licence for Frys Logistics Limited, saying it put profit before the law with a lack of regard to the rules which contributed to the death of End-to-End cyclists Andrew McMenigall and Toby Wallace 28 months ago."

http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/20151117-profit-supercedes-road-safety


Welcome and long overdue news. The worrying part is that at the time I challenged Lidl on why they were continuing to use the firm (they were its main customer) after the two cyclists had been killed , the driver was on bail for causing death by dangerous driving and had then gone on to have another collision two weeks later in which he injured another lorry driver. They defended it saying

Whilst we appreciate your concerns regarding our delivery company, we regret to inform you that we are unable to advise any further regarding this matter. We would like to reiterate that the hauliers performance and structure was assessed and found to be good industry standard..........Fry's Logistics Ltd have always been fully compliant with all Lidl Service levels and Contractual obligations.


If their quality assessments can sign off the worst case the Traffic Commissioner had ever seen as "fully compliant" and "good industry standard", what confidence does that give you in the rest of their quality system and procedures? More horse meat anyone?

toontra
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby toontra » 18 Nov 2015, 10:22am

Do you feel like writing back to them enclosing the commissioner's findings and asking how that squares with their "performance and structure" assessment? It's an important issue (not just with LIDL) and these companies need to be held to account.
5 & 6 day solo LEJoGs - http://6-daylejog.blogspot.com/

TonyR
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 18 Nov 2015, 10:26am

toontra wrote:Do you feel like writing back to them enclosing the commissioner's findings and asking them how that squares with their "performance and structure" assessment?


Beat you to it.

I would be interested in your comments on your assessment that "the haulier's performance and structure was assessed (by you) and found to be good industry standard" and "fully compliant with all Lidl Service levels and Contractual obligations." now that at Monday's Public Inquiry the Traffic Commissioner revoked their operators license describing Frys as "By far the worst case I have seen since I started as a Traffic Commissioner in 2007" and banning Mr Fry from being a transport manager and Mr Fry and the company from holding an operators license or being involved with managing HGV's for ten years - the longest ever ban imposed by the Traffic Commissioner.

Further she described Fry's approach as "reprehensible", that they knowingly allowed their drivers to break the driving hours regulations on a regular basis and that "Mr Fry has a calculated approach to road safety – it appears that the interests of profit supercede road safety."

Do you still maintain that "Fry's Logistics Ltd have always been fully compliant with all Lidl Service levels and Contractual obligations." and that your assessment procedures are fit for purpose?

It seems that Lidl has many many questions to answer about how such a dangerous operator passed your inspections with flying colours and worse, how after they killed two cyclists and nearly killed another HGV driver, you continued to maintain everything was fine when loud alarm bells should have been ringing. What lessons will you learn from this and what steps will you now take to overhaul your inspections and contracts with all your other haulier contractors to prevent a re-occurrence? I trust that you will now immediately cease using Frys ahead of their ban officially starting in December.

Finally as their main customer I think you now owe an apology to the families of the two dead cyclists, an apology Mr Fry refuses to give, for shortcomings in your system that led to their deaths. Had you done your assessment competently Frys would never have worked for you and two dead cyclists would still be alive. You assured me of your "best intentions at all times" so lets now see you walk that talk and make some amends.


I do wonder though who is now going to take the police and CPS to task for doing nothing other than prosecuting the company on a very minor charge.
Last edited by TonyR on 18 Nov 2015, 10:30am, edited 1 time in total.

toontra
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby toontra » 18 Nov 2015, 10:29am

Well done Tony - keep us updated of replies.
5 & 6 day solo LEJoGs - http://6-daylejog.blogspot.com/

PH
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby PH » 18 Nov 2015, 11:03am

Yes, good letter Tony.

TonyR
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Re: Another reason to boycott LIDL

Postby TonyR » 26 Nov 2015, 4:37pm

The reply has come in and the corporate head in the sand strategy has been activated.

Re: Your Contact

Thank you for taking the time to contact us again.

I am sorry to hear your further comments regarding the Haulier company currently employed by Lidl UK.

Unfortunately, I must reiterate that I am unable to disclose any further information regarding this matter as any internal investigations and details of the contracts we hold with the Haulier company are confidential. I am sorry for any dissatisfaction this may cause.

However, I would like to offer you my assurances that all such concerns are raised with Senior Management who take all customer comments seriously.

Thank you again for your contact

Yours sincerely,
For and on behalf of Lidl UK GmbH