Beryl Burton - The Greatest

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby The utility cyclist » 9 Sep 2018, 1:39am

pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote: Oh and I don't count Merckx, a systematic dope cheat doesn't get in any list of 'greats' :x


Except he does - in fact he tops most lists of cycling greats so you're wrong there.

He's won a lot of races on the back of being a serial dope cheat, the biggest doper of his era … FACT, laud him all you want, he's not a great.
Last edited by The utility cyclist on 10 Sep 2018, 1:41am, edited 1 time in total.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby The utility cyclist » 9 Sep 2018, 1:46am

Cunobelin wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Hobbs1951 wrote:Appreciate Beryl's achievements but what about Eileen Sheridan and Marguerite Wilson* ? We do seem to be rather fixated on sport, there are other achievements for which many women who cycle that are rarely mentioned - travel writing for example.

Apropos women contributing...perhaps being a microcosm of society this forum is, or perceived as, a patriarchy.

John.

*her Palmares - the 1930s.

Eileen Sheridan's LEJOG effort is one of the greatest ever endurance rides, it's an equal to Burton's 12 hour effort IMHO.
The thing is with Burton however is that she not only smashed every single existing record and continued to push those records for the next 25 years, she smashed the european ladies some/most whom were known to be on doping programmes.
If you can set a mark that beats the best in the country that have ever tried over a 12 hour period as a female when we know that men are simply stronger and faster in every sport you care to name then that marks her down as someone a cut above. Her 12 hour record stood for 40 years, her efforts at all the distances are beyond what many men are able to do even with the advantages of modern bikes and clothing, nutrition etc.
Travel writing I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but give me a name of an exulted cycling travel writer that has done it for 25 years.


Josie Dew........

never heard of her, how many titles and world records in her field has she won. She's a travel writer on a bike, she isn't greatest SPORTS person which is what we are debating.

pete75
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby pete75 » 9 Sep 2018, 7:48am

The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote: Oh and I don't count Merckx, a systematic dope cheat doesn't get in any list of 'greats' :x


Except he does - in fact he tops most lists of cycling greats so you're wrong there.

He's won a lot of races on the back of being a serial dope cheat, the biggest doper of his ear … FACT, laud him all you want, he's not a great.


You say it's a "FACT" he doped his ear. Please explain how ear doping can give a competitive advantage to any sportsman.

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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Bonefishblues » 9 Sep 2018, 7:50am

The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote: Oh and I don't count Merckx, a systematic dope cheat doesn't get in any list of 'greats' :x


Except he does - in fact he tops most lists of cycling greats so you're wrong there.

He's won a lot of races on the back of being a serial dope cheat, the biggest doper of his ear … FACT, laud him all you want, he's not a great.

By that measure, almost nobody* in professional road cycle could be elevated.

*struggling to think of anybody, tbh.

In a doping age, Merckx was the strongest of them, I guess can be said.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Sep 2018, 9:38am

The utility cyclist wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Eileen Sheridan's LEJOG effort is one of the greatest ever endurance rides, it's an equal to Burton's 12 hour effort IMHO.
The thing is with Burton however is that she not only smashed every single existing record and continued to push those records for the next 25 years, she smashed the european ladies some/most whom were known to be on doping programmes.
If you can set a mark that beats the best in the country that have ever tried over a 12 hour period as a female when we know that men are simply stronger and faster in every sport you care to name then that marks her down as someone a cut above. Her 12 hour record stood for 40 years, her efforts at all the distances are beyond what many men are able to do even with the advantages of modern bikes and clothing, nutrition etc.
Travel writing I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but give me a name of an exulted cycling travel writer that has done it for 25 years.


Josie Dew........

never heard of her, how many titles and world records in her field has she won. She's a travel writer on a bike, she isn't greatest SPORTS person which is what we are debating.


Your question was;

Travel writing I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but give me a name of an exulted cycling travel writer that has done it for 25 years.


She is a longstanding role model for many cyclists, an outstanding advocate and writer... for over 25 years, fully fully fits the criteria you asked for, but have now changed

The fact you have “never heard of her” is also an interesting way to dismiss her acheivments

If I find a dozen cyclists who had never heard of Beryl Burton... do we dismiss her as well

brynpoeth
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Sep 2018, 9:48am

And Dervla Murphy, she cycled, wrote, campaigned, not only famous for cycling

I bet some young cyclists have not heard of BB or Jeannie Longo (second-best after BB? :wink:)
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

pete75
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby pete75 » 9 Sep 2018, 10:35am

Cunobelin wrote:The fact you have “never heard of her” is also an interesting way to dismiss her acheivments



Yep. As one of my old university lectures said "Don't criticise from ignorance".....

Hobbs1951
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Hobbs1951 » 9 Sep 2018, 1:54pm

I'd perhaps go for for Eileen over Beryl simply because she was a pioneer, I tend to admire those who've done something first, as for the poster who mentioned sport (in this context) would they discount the achievement of climbing Everest because it wasn't a sport or in competition ?

John.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Sep 2018, 4:44pm

pete75 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Except he does - in fact he tops most lists of cycling greats so you're wrong there.

He's won a lot of races on the back of being a serial dope cheat, the biggest doper of his ear … FACT, laud him all you want, he's not a great.


You say it's a "FACT" he doped his ear. Please explain how ear doping can give a competitive advantage to any sportsman.


He can hear team instructions on tactics better?

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TrevA
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby TrevA » 30 Sep 2018, 7:27pm

I met Beryl Burton in 1975. I'd only started cycling the year before and I was only 15 at the time. Me and my mate entered the Nottingham Clarion early season 2-up 25 TTT. Beryl also entered. On the day, it was torrential rain. We decided to still ride and came in with a 1.07, which was quite good I thought. Beryl turned up but decided that the conditions were too bad and did not ride. She spent the whole of the event in the HQ, chatting to the riders and I met her after i'd ridden. My dad had given me a lift down to the start and had also stayed in the HQ during the event. On the drive home he said "Who was that woman with the curly hair", I said "Beryl Burton". He said " She never stopped eating the whole time she was there!". I guess the amount of training she did gave her an enormous appetite.

brynpoeth
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby brynpoeth » 30 Sep 2018, 8:36pm

BB is not the only famous person from Morley, there is a statue of Ernest Wiseman there too :wink:
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

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NUKe
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby NUKe » 1 Oct 2018, 11:43pm

Sir Len Hutton is anther famous morleyian. H h Asquith too. Rhubarb is it’s most famous export.
NUKe
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cotterpins
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby cotterpins » 7 Oct 2018, 1:15pm

Sadly, as proud as we are of Beryl's achievements, when I mentioned her in a similar remark about how great she was to a non-cycling friend, he replied, WHO? When I mentioned famous sportsmen of the 'fifties he knew most of the them as household names . . . Reg Harris, Geoff Duke, Bruce Woodcock, Tommy Lawton, etc. It appears cycling has always been a Cinderella sport up till recent years . . . now of course more money is involved. Scan your newspaper tomorrow for example, and see how much cycling is mentioned. Unless it's drug accusation related, then it gets columns printed about it . . . You have to find the tiny type sport-related results tucked away at the bottom of the page, along with the other Cinderella sports.

Steady rider
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Steady rider » 11 Oct 2018, 7:12pm

I visited London a couple a few years ago, the number of cyclists had grown from pass visits, a good sign for the future.

I sometimes came across Beryl when at time times and at other times. She was one of the best and would have my vote.

cotterpins
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby cotterpins » 12 Oct 2018, 8:37pm

The real question is: "BB was the greatest sportsperson ever,. Perhaps we could possibly agree if we said Female Cyclist ever!