What is stopping women from cycling?

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pjclinch
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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby pjclinch » 4 Jun 2018, 11:07am

gnvqsos wrote:I think people are demonising lorry drivers.I really dont know how someone can claim the majority break the law.


It's very easy to claim that most drivers of motor vehicles break the law, and I can say that because it is simply the culture in the UK that some law breaking in a motor vehicle is okay, particularly if it's speeding or parking. But just because "everybody does it" doesn't mean it isn't the law.

gnvqsos wrote:I do feel that more people need to stick to dedicated cycle paths,and leave the roads clear for the grown-ups.I bet the same people who winge buy goods from Amazon,order groceries online and generally participate in commercial transactions involving merchandise brought by lorries.


I do feel that you'll find the point over there somewhere, out from under your bridge where you seem to have missed it.

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1982john
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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby 1982john » 4 Jun 2018, 7:16pm

Does anyone know if female participation in cycling is an issue in other European countries?

gnvqsos
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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby gnvqsos » 4 Jun 2018, 10:13pm

gnvqsos wrote:
I think people are demonising lorry drivers.I really dont know how someone can claim the majority break the law.


It's very easy to claim that most drivers of motor vehicles break the law, and I can say that because it is simply the culture in the UK that some law breaking in a motor vehicle is okay, particularly if it's speeding or parking. But just because "everybody does it" doesn't mean it isn't the law.

gnvqsos wrote:
I do feel that more people need to stick to dedicated cycle paths,and leave the roads clear for the grown-ups.I bet the same people who winge buy goods from Amazon,order groceries online and generally participate in commercial transactions involving merchandise brought by lorries.


I do feel that you'll find the point over there somewhere, out from under your bridge where you seem to have missed it.

Pete.


Hi Pete

You are very enigmatic in your comments,especially the bridge remarks.I think your acerbic wit may end up blunted by my pig ignorance

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby Vorpal » 4 Jun 2018, 11:25pm

1982john wrote:Does anyone know if female participation in cycling is an issue in other European countries?

The more car-centric they are, the fewer women cycle. The easier and safer they have made cycling, the more women cycle.
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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby pjclinch » 5 Jun 2018, 9:21am

Vorpal wrote:
1982john wrote:Does anyone know if female participation in cycling is an issue in other European countries?

The more car-centric they are, the fewer women cycle. The easier and safer they have made cycling, the more women cycle.


The end of the curve being (as one would expect) in NL where a slightly higher percentage of total cycling is by women.

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RickH
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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby RickH » 5 Jun 2018, 7:01pm

reohn2 wrote:TBH I very rarely have problems with HGV's or their drivers...

I find much the same although I can understand people getting a bit intimidated by a truck on their tail or pulling back in after they've passed. But they will usually wait patiently behind until it is safe to pass. The "dangerous" lorries (or more accurately their drivers) tend to be the big 4 axle tippers when they are in an urban environment (they seem to have been involved in a high proportion of London fatalities reported) but my experience with encountering the local quarry truck has been positive, I can't think of any incidents while I've been cycling.

Probably worth a share if you haven't seen it already - it seems to have been everywhere - the latest Family ByCycle blog "The day that Rhoda went viral". Good to see a positive bit of video (click on the twitter link in the blog post to see the video - or click here to go straight to the video clip.)

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby awavey » 6 Jun 2018, 12:50am

but its very difficult to extrapolate from just our own personal experiences, and put a tag of "all" on it. maybe lorry drivers in your part of the country are just different because they work for different companies with different delivery schedules or have different approaches to driving, maybe more of them are recreational cyclists who knows.

of the lorries I encounter on main roads and country roads as it seems to be increasingly common for logistics companies to setup in the countryside around old farms or airfields, generally they overtake too closely and too fast. whether that puts other women off I dont know

I know one of the scariest close passes Ive ever had involved a lorry, that Id just passed parked up in a layby, and there was literally no other traffic or noise on this road it was really quiet, and I heard it start up and rev and then the accelerate really fast and I could hear it behind me coming closer, and faster and closer and faster,, and I just sensed this was going to be a close pass,dont know why but all I could do was grip the handlebars as hard as I could, tuck my elbows in and brace myself to try and stay upright in the draft I knew was coming, and they must have passed me within a foot, they didnt cross the white line, yet as I say no other traffic around,probably doing about 60mph, on a 40 limit road, and you are just head height, seemingly only inches away from these clonking large wheels and immense noise, with nowhere to go or escape to and thinking Im a goner if anything messes up in the next 5-10seconds

so no I dont like lorries around cyclists much.

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Jun 2018, 8:47am

I'm male and had real issues with trucks when they were building the Heysham link road. Trucks used to skip Lancaster traffic by scooting up the A6, a road not really made for large vehicles. I had seriously scary incidents where it's not being melodramatic to say I escaped death. It really needed a Councillor to actually earn their money and get a traffic restriction for trucks to stop that rat run.

Now it's finished I feel perfectly safe and I'm seeing more women cyclists commuting too. However I suspect use of a nearby canal towpath is more likely to see the female cyclists who commute. I think where traffic free options exist you'll see a higher take up by women cyclists than men. It's what I've seen on my commute which can be either types of route. Is there a gender divide over acceptance or identification of risk of cycling? Of the female road route cyclists, they tend to be more likely to be roadies with a good average speed. Whereas male cyclists vary from roadies to slow bso riders.

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby reohn2 » 6 Jun 2018, 10:58am

awavey wrote:but its very difficult to extrapolate from just our own personal experiences, and put a tag of "all" on it. maybe lorry drivers in your part of the country are just different because they work for different companies with different delivery schedules or have different approaches to driving, maybe more of them are recreational cyclists who knows.

of the lorries I encounter on main roads and country roads as it seems to be increasingly common for logistics companies to setup in the countryside around old farms or airfields, generally they overtake too closely and too fast. whether that puts other women off I dont know

I know one of the scariest close passes Ive ever had involved a lorry, that Id just passed parked up in a layby, and there was literally no other traffic or on this road it was really quiet, and I heard it start up and rev and then the accelerate really fast and I could hear it behind me coming closer, and faster and closer and faster,, and I just sensed this was going to be a close pass,dont know why but all I could do was grip the handlebars as hard as I could, tuck my elbows in and brace myself to try and stay upright in the draft I knew was coming, and they must have passed me within a foot, they didnt cross the white line, yet as I say no other traffic around,probably doing about 60mph, on a 40 limit road, and you are just head height, seemingly only inches away from these clonking large wheels and immense noise, with nowhere to go or escape to and thinking Im a goner if anything messes up in the next 5-10seconds

so no I dont like lorries around cyclists much.

That vehicle sounds very much like an LGV(rigid 7.5 tonne box van type)usually used by delivery companies and with significant number driven by morons on very tight delivery schedules.
Vehicles similar to the one in this link perhaps:- https://www.google.com/search?q=7.5+ton ... BFM:&isa=y
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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Jun 2018, 7:08pm

There is a courier depot near my work
Not bothered systematically observing the drivers but telephoning smoking eating drinking are common, even driving with the sliding door open

How stupid is that?
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby RickH » 6 Jun 2018, 8:44pm

Getting back to women cycling...

On a positive note, this month is the 10th birthday of Chester Fabulous Ladies, part of Chester & North Wales CTC, & there are nearly 40 booked (usually it is a case of just turn up & ride) for the birthday ride & picnic this Saturday. (I shall be there as an honorary member piloting my sight impaired friend Clare on her tandem. :D Often one to get somewhat puzzled looks if I say I've been over to Chester at the weekend to be a fabulous lady! :lol: )

They started with a CTC initiative "five miles to fabulous" to get women to ride 5 miles (which seems like a long way to non-cycling folk until you point out that is is only about half an hour). The first ride in June 2008 had just Sue, the organiser, and two others. It has developed into a monthly ladies ride with usually 20 plus, & 30 plus when the weather is kind. It has probably one of the largest regular turnouts of the C&NW CTC groups (certainly the ones I'm familiar with).

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby awavey » 8 Jun 2018, 12:50am

reohn2 wrote:
awavey wrote:so no I dont like lorries around cyclists much.

That vehicle sounds very much like an LGV(rigid 7.5 tonne box van type)usually used by delivery companies and with significant number driven by morons on very tight delivery schedules.
Vehicles similar to the one in this link perhaps:- https://www.google.com/search?q=7.5+ton ... BFM:&isa=y


no I can assure you it was very much like one of these types of lorry https://www.google.com/search?client=ta ... +truck+a14

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby Joanne30 » 8 Jun 2018, 11:58pm

Apologies if these points have already been raised as the thread is pretty long now and I may have missed some notes...

Some reasons I would consider at looking why women are less represented than men:

* On commutes, women are usually the ones taking children to/from school/playgroup/events. They therefore would have to be responsible for the children riding with them plus carrying all the accompanying bags/equipment.

* There aren't as many female celebrities as male in any of the cycling disciplines, and their pay and sponsorships appear more limited. Representation matters for younger generations to be encouraged. It is improving, but slowly.

* For school age children, many schools still (wrongly IMO) demand girls to wear skirts, not conducive to cycling to school. They would also struggle to wear something else then get changed as often children are not allowed in the school building before classes start and it also means them carrying extra clothes all day.

* In my work (as a social worker) I had to carry a lot of paperwork to and from meetings/work/home visits, therefore a car was easier. This is a female dominated field, maybe gender splits in other work sectors play into this. Many men (incl my partner) commuted into London City by bike to their office jobs where there were showers, changing rooms and they didn't need to carry work-related things. I was stuck in a car with a boot full of car seats, paperwork, toys for whatever my day might throw at me. I don't recall ever having worked in a social work building that had showers.

* Regarding very young children, we are seeing how pathetically gender-specific toys are. Consider whether you are encouraging your daughters/nieces/granddaughters to get into physical sports as much as your sons/nephews/grandsons.

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby pjclinch » 9 Jun 2018, 12:30pm

I think some of those are perceptual/cultural more than practical (that's not to suggest they're not real barriers, but perhaps not quite the same barriers people thought they were dealing with).

NL isn't that different from here in that mums will tend to do more childcare than dads, yet actually more women cycle in NL than men. It's certainly more likely you'd have a sensible cycling route to school there, but plenty of British schools are quite bike accessible, but not bike accessed.

Image

With the right bike you can take all the stuff (and children) required.

Showers are much talked about here because commute riding has a lot of crossover with sports riders, but again NL proves you don't have to work up a sweat. I used to deliver my 2 children to primary school on a 3-seater bike and then continue to work. I never had to take a shower or change when I arrived (and that's a 20 Kg bike up a fair sized hill, I just took my time in a low gear). And as with the cargo bike, electric options now available can be very helpful.

Skirts may not be as practical as trousers or shorts for riding, but it's certainly not impossible. The typical Dutch omafiets has a skirt-guard as standard, but they're generally not necessary. My daughter often used a dress or skirt at primary (though trousers were an option she sometimes went with) and it was never an issue on the 3 seater, and once she'd graduated to riding herself it was still no problem:

Image

You can also see in that they both have their bags with them, though the 3-seater had room for 4 so I could take their bags and still have plenty of space for any luggage I needed myself.

There will be numerous individual cases where a car is simply a better practical tool, but for many I suspect much of the problem is that with such a car-centric culture many people don't realise that a bike and everyday practical transport have quite the overlap they do. My wife or I rode the kids to school, and then escorted them (before leaving it all t them) not because we're eco-warrior bike activists, but because it was much less of a chore than driving and as a side-effect did everyone a bit of good. But this was easy for us, we already cycled by default so we knew it's not hard. The hardest thing is change, especially from a general default option. Why do so many people do the school run by car? Because everyone else does, that's what we do in the UK...

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Re: What is stopping women from cycling?

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jun 2018, 12:37pm

awavey wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
awavey wrote:so no I dont like lorries around cyclists much.

That vehicle sounds very much like an LGV(rigid 7.5 tonne box van type)usually used by delivery companies and with significant number driven by morons on very tight delivery schedules.
Vehicles similar to the one in this link perhaps:- https://www.google.com/search?q=7.5+ton ... BFM:&isa=y


no I can assure you it was very much like one of these types of lorry https://www.google.com/search?client=ta ... +truck+a14


Ok,you were there not me .
I can only reiterate what I posted up thread that I have very problems with Hy's,but there's bound to be a few loonies driving them.It must have been a very frightening experience.
Did you report it to the police or the company ?
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