Beryl Burton - The Greatest

pete75
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby pete75 » 6 Sep 2018, 12:22pm

Cunobelin wrote:As with Sean Connery.... he may be the "sexiest man alive" but there are many who would not find hitting women "sexy"



And judging by the sales of Fifty Shades of Grey many who would...

Hobbs1951
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Hobbs1951 » 7 Sep 2018, 8:29am

Appreciate Beryl's achievements but what about Eileen Sheridan and Marguerite Wilson* ? We do seem to be rather fixated on sport, there are other achievements for which many women who cycle that are rarely mentioned - travel writing for example.

Apropos women contributing...perhaps being a microcosm of society this forum is, or perceived as, a patriarchy.

John.

*her Palmares - the 1930s.

cotterpins
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby cotterpins » 7 Sep 2018, 7:08pm

Maybe she is considered the best women's cyclist, but exactly who were the female riders she competed against in a what was then very much a Cinderella sport in amongst women. The question is would she be so great now that women's cycling is so much more competitive! It not just what you win . . . it's who the amount of people who make up the competition. I certainly don't think she would find it quite so easy today! Yes, I know all about how she wiped the floor with the men.

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NUKe
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby NUKe » 7 Sep 2018, 9:00pm

cotterpins wrote:Maybe she is considered the best women's cyclist, but exactly who were the female riders she competed against in a what was then very much a Cinderella sport in amongst women. The question is would she be so great now that women's cycling is so much more competitive! It not just what you win . . . it's who the amount of people who make up the competition. I certainly don't think she would find it quite so easy today! Yes, I know all about how she wiped the floor with the men.

Beryl was something special and if she was competing today she would have been at the top.She didn’t have the modern training or equipment, but she had that something that makes a champion dogged determination.
NUKe
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby The utility cyclist » 7 Sep 2018, 9:02pm

Hobbs1951 wrote:Appreciate Beryl's achievements but what about Eileen Sheridan and Marguerite Wilson* ? We do seem to be rather fixated on sport, there are other achievements for which many women who cycle that are rarely mentioned - travel writing for example.

Apropos women contributing...perhaps being a microcosm of society this forum is, or perceived as, a patriarchy.

John.

*her Palmares - the 1930s.

Eileen Sheridan's LEJOG effort is one of the greatest ever endurance rides, it's an equal to Burton's 12 hour effort IMHO.
The thing is with Burton however is that she not only smashed every single existing record and continued to push those records for the next 25 years, she smashed the european ladies some/most whom were known to be on doping programmes.
If you can set a mark that beats the best in the country that have ever tried over a 12 hour period as a female when we know that men are simply stronger and faster in every sport you care to name then that marks her down as someone a cut above. Her 12 hour record stood for 40 years, her efforts at all the distances are beyond what many men are able to do even with the advantages of modern bikes and clothing, nutrition etc.
Travel writing I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but give me a name of an exulted cycling travel writer that has done it for 25 years.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Cunobelin » 8 Sep 2018, 6:55am

The utility cyclist wrote:
Hobbs1951 wrote:Appreciate Beryl's achievements but what about Eileen Sheridan and Marguerite Wilson* ? We do seem to be rather fixated on sport, there are other achievements for which many women who cycle that are rarely mentioned - travel writing for example.

Apropos women contributing...perhaps being a microcosm of society this forum is, or perceived as, a patriarchy.

John.

*her Palmares - the 1930s.

Eileen Sheridan's LEJOG effort is one of the greatest ever endurance rides, it's an equal to Burton's 12 hour effort IMHO.
The thing is with Burton however is that she not only smashed every single existing record and continued to push those records for the next 25 years, she smashed the european ladies some/most whom were known to be on doping programmes.
If you can set a mark that beats the best in the country that have ever tried over a 12 hour period as a female when we know that men are simply stronger and faster in every sport you care to name then that marks her down as someone a cut above. Her 12 hour record stood for 40 years, her efforts at all the distances are beyond what many men are able to do even with the advantages of modern bikes and clothing, nutrition etc.
Travel writing I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but give me a name of an exulted cycling travel writer that has done it for 25 years.


Josie Dew........

merseymouth
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby merseymouth » 8 Sep 2018, 9:00am

Hi there, One name for a great travel writer with longevity - Dervela Murphy !
Read her "A Place Apart". A very determined woman, ahead of her time. MM

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Cunobelin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Cunobelin » 8 Sep 2018, 3:00pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
Hobbs1951 wrote:Appreciate Beryl's achievements but what about Eileen Sheridan and Marguerite Wilson* ? We do seem to be rather fixated on sport, there are other achievements for which many women who cycle that are rarely mentioned - travel writing for example.

Apropos women contributing...perhaps being a microcosm of society this forum is, or perceived as, a patriarchy.

John.

*her Palmares - the 1930s.

Eileen Sheridan's LEJOG effort is one of the greatest ever endurance rides, it's an equal to Burton's 12 hour effort IMHO.
The thing is with Burton however is that she not only smashed every single existing record and continued to push those records for the next 25 years, she smashed the european ladies some/most whom were known to be on doping programmes.
If you can set a mark that beats the best in the country that have ever tried over a 12 hour period as a female when we know that men are simply stronger and faster in every sport you care to name then that marks her down as someone a cut above. Her 12 hour record stood for 40 years, her efforts at all the distances are beyond what many men are able to do even with the advantages of modern bikes and clothing, nutrition etc.
Travel writing I'm sure is a wonderful thing, but give me a name of an exulted cycling travel writer that has done it for 25 years.


Lillian Campbell Davison, Published in 1889, still being quoted and referred to today.... a little more than 25 years

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531colin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby 531colin » 8 Sep 2018, 6:26pm

brynpoeth wrote:….Anyone here met her, or have memories? .......

I only ever rode (with my kids) with the (then) Family Section of Harrogate Nova, which is a racing club. However, I did attend a club dinner when Beryl presented the Prizes. I remember a lovely unassuming lady who took a particular delight in the fact that the club was "bringing on" the kids.

I wonder whether she would have been horrified or amused at some of the pretentious tripe written here.

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531colin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby 531colin » 8 Sep 2018, 6:29pm

thirdcrank wrote:…….. let's not turn this into denigration of a great athlete and role model.....

+1

brynpoeth
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Sep 2018, 7:14pm

Kristina Vogel was the new German BB but she crashed on the track at 65 kph in training and is now paralysed from the chest down, - 99
The crash was in June, it was the lead story in "Bild"* today, the media allowed her privacy for a while, +1?

* = newspaper with big print, like the sun
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras & STOP signs

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Cunobelin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Cunobelin » 8 Sep 2018, 7:28pm

531colin wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:…….. let's not turn this into denigration of a great athlete and role model.....

+1


It has however turned into the denigration of several great athletes and role models..... that aren’t Beryl Burton

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Cunobelin
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby Cunobelin » 8 Sep 2018, 7:35pm

brynpoeth wrote:Kristina Vogel was the new German BB but she crashed on the track at 65 kph in training and is now paralysed from the chest down, - 99
The crash was in June, it was the lead story in "Bild"* today, the media allowed her privacy for a while, +1?

* = newspaper with big print, like the sun


I believe they did.... the present articles are in response to a press announcement that she made on Friday confirming the condition

paddler
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby paddler » 8 Sep 2018, 8:00pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
pjclinch wrote:<yawn> So was she clearly better than Vos?

Oddly enough, this particular thread in "Women's cycling interests" doesn't appear to have raised the interest of many (any?) women whatsoever. I wonder why?


Clearly she was, greater range, more longevity and more titles even despite the lack of opportunity compared to Vos and the fact Vos is a full time pro, also Vos has a more equal playing field than BB did when at European and World champs not to mention silly short races that were laughable even by today's shortened female road race standards which didn't suit Burton's strength and stamina.

Vos national road race champ 4, BB 12
Vos national TT champ 2, BB, 72 but let's call it the 25 BBAR titles to be fair as she could ride in multi events
Vos 3 times word RR champ, BB twice
Vos track WC 0 BB 5
Vos track national champs 0 BB 12
Vos endurance world records 0, BB 1

No contest really, you can't include races that BB would have never had chance to ride because they didn't exist and indeed that's as much down to the fortune for modern female riders (by comparison to BB ES day) as it is being a full time paid pro where you're not having t pick rhubarb and look after a child. The amount of fuss and fawning over Venus Williams coming back after having a baby is ridiculous, like she's the first women ever to do be back at the top of their sport:roll:
BB in today's modern era would be a world star beyond even the likes of Laura Kenny, she was one of those freaks of nature that come along once in a generation or two that no-one can truly explain, however there are others globally in other sports that are also candidates for GOAT sportspersons, it's impossible to compare realy but as I said BB is amongst the very very best. Oh and I don't count Merckx, a systematic dope cheat doesn't get in any list of 'greats' :x


Has Venus Williams got a child then?

Dave

pete75
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Re: Beryl Burton - The Greatest

Postby pete75 » 8 Sep 2018, 8:15pm

The utility cyclist wrote: Oh and I don't count Merckx, a systematic dope cheat doesn't get in any list of 'greats' :x


Except he does - in fact he tops most lists of cycling greats so you're wrong there.