Rebecca Twigg

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TrevA
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby TrevA » 17 Jul 2019, 6:35pm

There are the likes of Paul Gascogne (Gazza). A supremely talented footballer who earned millions from the game, but couldn’t cope with life outside football.

But to balance that out, there are also people like David Beckham, who seems quite well adjusted, was equally as famous and talented as Gazza, but hasn’t gone off the rails.

My own son was a British professional cyclist for 10 years, racing against people such as Ben Swift, Ian Stannard, Adam Blythe and Peter Kennaugh. However, my son only ever saw cycling as a hobby, although one that he could make money out of. He always had a plan B and is now happily retired and running his own business.

pete75
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby pete75 » 18 Jul 2019, 4:01pm

Cunobelin wrote:I was lucky in that I qualified as a Radiographer so had a civilian equivalence, and found a job relatively easily. Also, there was a fair amount of contact with civilian bodies and organisations - so I was in many ways sheltered in my transition

I do however know others wh have spent 22 years in the Service and running a unit or team. Only to find out that when they leave there is no civilian equivalent or if there is you do not hold the appropriate qualification.

I would suggest that professional athletes are the same... running fast, cycling fast is not going to be top of the job requirements for many posts, and as Rebecca states - you have dreamed of doing something all your life, and achieve that dream, there is a big hole when it stops..... how do we prepare the individuals for this?

Doesn't someone retiring after that many years in the armed forces get quite a good pension, certainly enough to live on. A neighbour has recently retired after many years in the air force and receives a substantial pension.

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kylecycler
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby kylecycler » 18 Jul 2019, 5:27pm

pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I was lucky in that I qualified as a Radiographer so had a civilian equivalence, and found a job relatively easily. Also, there was a fair amount of contact with civilian bodies and organisations - so I was in many ways sheltered in my transition

I do however know others wh have spent 22 years in the Service and running a unit or team. Only to find out that when they leave there is no civilian equivalent or if there is you do not hold the appropriate qualification.

I would suggest that professional athletes are the same... running fast, cycling fast is not going to be top of the job requirements for many posts, and as Rebecca states - you have dreamed of doing something all your life, and achieve that dream, there is a big hole when it stops..... how do we prepare the individuals for this?

Doesn't someone retiring after that many years in the armed forces get quite a good pension, certainly enough to live on. A neighbour has recently retired after many years in the air force and receives a substantial pension.

One of my best cycling buddies is a retired American ex-serviceman*. I guess he receives a good enough pension but he had no option but to retire - thirty years is all he was allowed, that's the rules. He loved his job and would still be working if he could be. As it is, he's stir-crazy; he embraced cycling with a passion but lately the passion has been waning. Hopefully that passion will rekindle itself (we've probably all been there) but it's not as easy or as clear-cut as we tend to assume.

*who, like me, detests Trump with a passion (unlike his family back in the USA) - whole other topic...

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Cunobelin
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby Cunobelin » 18 Jul 2019, 7:52pm

pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I was lucky in that I qualified as a Radiographer so had a civilian equivalence, and found a job relatively easily. Also, there was a fair amount of contact with civilian bodies and organisations - so I was in many ways sheltered in my transition

I do however know others wh have spent 22 years in the Service and running a unit or team. Only to find out that when they leave there is no civilian equivalent or if there is you do not hold the appropriate qualification.

I would suggest that professional athletes are the same... running fast, cycling fast is not going to be top of the job requirements for many posts, and as Rebecca states - you have dreamed of doing something all your life, and achieve that dream, there is a big hole when it stops..... how do we prepare the individuals for this?

Doesn't someone retiring after that many years in the armed forces get quite a good pension, certainly enough to live on. A neighbour has recently retired after many years in the air force and receives a substantial pension.



Only part of the story. Many servicemen leave at less than 22 years, so pension does not cut in until far in their future.

Secondly, don't confuse a pension with mental health or homelessness

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby pete75 » 21 Jul 2019, 10:39pm

Cunobelin wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I was lucky in that I qualified as a Radiographer so had a civilian equivalence, and found a job relatively easily. Also, there was a fair amount of contact with civilian bodies and organisations - so I was in many ways sheltered in my transition

I do however know others wh have spent 22 years in the Service and running a unit or team. Only to find out that when they leave there is no civilian equivalent or if there is you do not hold the appropriate qualification.

I would suggest that professional athletes are the same... running fast, cycling fast is not going to be top of the job requirements for many posts, and as Rebecca states - you have dreamed of doing something all your life, and achieve that dream, there is a big hole when it stops..... how do we prepare the individuals for this?

Doesn't someone retiring after that many years in the armed forces get quite a good pension, certainly enough to live on. A neighbour has recently retired after many years in the air force and receives a substantial pension.



Only part of the story. Many servicemen leave at less than 22 years, so pension does not cut in until far in their future.

Secondly, don't confuse a pension with mental health or homelessness


Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby Vorpal » 22 Jul 2019, 1:08pm

pete75 wrote:
Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.

People leave secure jobs all the time without another in hand, and they do so for many reasons, including because they are mercilessly bullied. I do not think it is reasonable to blame someone without knowing all of the facts. I had one job for a brief while that I would have gone hungry or slept in shelters rather than going back.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby pete75 » 22 Jul 2019, 1:31pm

Vorpal wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.

People leave secure jobs all the time without another in hand, and they do so for many reasons, including because they are mercilessly bullied. I do not think it is reasonable to blame someone without knowing all of the facts. I had one job for a brief while that I would have gone hungry or slept in shelters rather than going back.


If that had happened to you it would have been as a result of your own choice wouldn't it?

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby Vorpal » 22 Jul 2019, 1:54pm

pete75 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.

People leave secure jobs all the time without another in hand, and they do so for many reasons, including because they are mercilessly bullied. I do not think it is reasonable to blame someone without knowing all of the facts. I had one job for a brief while that I would have gone hungry or slept in shelters rather than going back.


If that had happened to you it would have been as a result of your own choice wouldn't it?

Well, yes, but it was a choice that wasn't a choice. It wasn't an environment that I could live with for very long. The boss was a temperamental bully. His assistant pretended to make friends with the other employees, then snitch to the boss what we said when he wasn't there. And he twisted it, taking things all out of context to give the boss something more to bully us about. The other employees had no practical choice (i.e. were easily exploitable). Some were undocumented, others were ex-convicts with sporadic work patterns. One turned up to work (operating machinery) most days drunk or drugged. It was absolutely the worst working environment I have ever been exposed to, and I did some really crap jobs when I was younger.

Or maybe you prefer my (single) mother who worked as a secretary/administrative assistant when I was growing up. She quit at least one job because of persistent sexual harassment, although people mostly didn't call it harassment back then. She worked in some pretty horrid jobs, too, just to feed us & pay the mortgage, so I cannot imagine how unbearable it must have been for her that she quit, even with small children to feed.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby Cunobelin » 22 Jul 2019, 5:56pm

pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
pete75 wrote:Doesn't someone retiring after that many years in the armed forces get quite a good pension, certainly enough to live on. A neighbour has recently retired after many years in the air force and receives a substantial pension.



Only part of the story. Many servicemen leave at less than 22 years, so pension does not cut in until far in their future.

Secondly, don't confuse a pension with mental health or homelessness


Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.


Which bears no relationship to what I posted.

I said nothing about choice or unemployment, simply pointed out the fallacy that all Service Personnel have a good pension.

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby pete75 » 22 Jul 2019, 6:26pm

Cunobelin wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:

Only part of the story. Many servicemen leave at less than 22 years, so pension does not cut in until far in their future.

Secondly, don't confuse a pension with mental health or homelessness


Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.


Which bears no relationship to what I posted.

I said nothing about choice or unemployment, simply pointed out the fallacy that all Service Personnel have a good pension.


My point was that people serving 22 years have a good pension. Pensions for lesser terms are usually good in relation to years served. There may be many things to complain about in the armed forces but the pensions scheme isn't one of them.

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby Cunobelin » 22 Jul 2019, 6:44pm

pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Anyone voluntarily leaving a secure job without another job already in hand has only himself to blame if he ends up unemployed.


Which bears no relationship to what I posted.

I said nothing about choice or unemployment, simply pointed out the fallacy that all Service Personnel have a good pension.


My point was that people serving 22 years have a good pension. Pensions for lesser terms are usually good in relation to years served. There may be many things to complain about in the armed forces but the pensions scheme isn't one of them.


Only if they have access to it.

They simply DO NOT

At less than 22 years your pension is deferred - you do not receive a pension when you leave or for many years after

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby brynpoeth » 22 Jul 2019, 6:46pm

Mick F could apparently afford to retire early, although he got another job to earn a bit
Have the pension rules been changed? Do junior ranks get a good pension after 22 years?
Worth remembering that servicepersons spend many months away from home, living in conditions comparable to traditional youth hostels (?) with little privacy
Or did Petty Officer Mick have a single cabin?
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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby pete75 » 22 Jul 2019, 7:03pm

Cunobelin wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Which bears no relationship to what I posted.

I said nothing about choice or unemployment, simply pointed out the fallacy that all Service Personnel have a good pension.


My point was that people serving 22 years have a good pension. Pensions for lesser terms are usually good in relation to years served. There may be many things to complain about in the armed forces but the pensions scheme isn't one of them.


Only if they have access to it.

They simply DO NOT

At less than 22 years your pension is deferred - you do not receive a pension when you leave or for many years after


Yes that is normal with most pension schemes - if you leave the job the pension will not be paid until you reach a certain age.

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby Ben@Forest » 6 Sep 2019, 7:36pm

The rate of service pension also (and pretty obviously) depends on rank as well as length of service. So the pension a corporal gets is less than that of a sergeant major.

And the pension either gets will not (unless they live the most frugal of lives) be enough to retire on, especially as at age 40, which would be retirement age if they'd joined age 18. 40 is prime age for still having a mortgage, two growing kids and wondering if they will want to go to university in the future.

Everyone on here would be spitting austerity-flavoured feathers if corporals could retire on pensions at 40 that meant they didn't have to work again.

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Re: Rebecca Twigg

Postby mattheus » 8 Sep 2019, 5:39pm

Ben,
Can you give us any actual figures? (and also for servicemen retiring later e.g. join at 18, retire at 50).

I'm just curious really. As anecdata, I work with a couple of ex raf/navy/army types (of various ranks). I think they all served until 40-50-ish, and seem fairly comfy in life, but faaaaar from rich!