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Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 29 Sep 2019, 3:15pm
by briansnail
Maybe I am a just a natural born trouble maker. Now to get out my big stick and stir it.Much as I am reluctant to do so. The Tour De France does not allow women to compete in this classic race. Why ever not?. The main reason cited is that there is no real interest.Also uncharitably they are accusations that Women just can't hack the pain and distance. Obviously proponents of this dubious theory have not suffered the pangs of childbirth. As a guy women also accuse me of not listening. On this post I have to be on a winning streak. I am firmly on your side here.I think that there should be placards and firm protests at this blatant piece of sex discrimination.Although Riots might be a bit excessive . The fact is once the race is set up the cost of having a Women's race is minimal. So what should you do? Do not take this lying down. Threaten to sue in a International court .This will send cold shivers down the backs of the organisers. They might still adamantly turn their backs with folded arms. On the other hand you might have the advantage of making lots of money. The organisers are almost certain to lose. The fact is there would be line up of companies vying for advertising rights on Cycling's most prestigious calendar classic event.The tragedy is no one is getting them on board.There used to be a cycle tube Birmingham manufacturer that regularly sponsored Woman's racing in the UK. The only thing that people could agree on was that is was a howling success.
Meanwhile Vive La Tour! Vive La France - bastion of equality (most of the time!)

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 30 Sep 2019, 8:55am
by brynpoeth
Because they could not keep up with the lads, except Beryl Burton perhaps

And because the TdF is a mon€y machine with a bit of cycling

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 30 Sep 2019, 9:44am
by Mike Sales
briansnail wrote:Maybe I am a just a natural born trouble maker. Now to get out my big stick and stir it.


Must try harder.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 30 Sep 2019, 8:30pm
by Cunobelin
Mike Sales wrote:
briansnail wrote:Maybe I am a just a natural born trouble maker. Now to get out my big stick and stir it.


Must try harder.


Perhaps "getting out your big stick" was not the best wording in a thread comparing men and women

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 30 Sep 2019, 8:36pm
by Cunobelin

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 1 Oct 2019, 10:12pm
by TrevA
Should they have stages on the same days as the men, or a completely separate race on different dates. Both the Women’s Giro and the Women’s Tour of Britain are stand alone races. Nothing to do with the men’s races, apart from the same organisers.

There used to be a Women’s TdF on the same days as the men’s race but with shortened stages. This meant long transfers for the women, as they had to travel to the start town around half way along the men’s route. I’m not sure the logistics of having the Women’s race on the same day as the men would work. You’d have to accommodate another 3-400 people in addition to the men’s race. Roads would have to closed for longer. The women would have to be at least an hour, probably more, ahead of the men on the road.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 2 Oct 2019, 11:49am
by brynpoeth
Mixed tandem racing is the solution :wink:

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 2 Oct 2019, 4:40pm
by whoof
Doesn't raise hackles just a lot of what you say is incorrect.

There was a woman who rode the Giro in 1924.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonsina_Strada

I would welcome more women's racing, bigger budgets, more secure contracts and better paid riders (including minimum wages) this requires funding and this comes from sponsorship.

There are not lots of sponsors waiting to pour money into cycling, every year teams fold and whilst some pick up new sponsors, Sky-Ineos a number don't BMC-CCC becoming one team.

https://teamvirtucycling.com/en/nyheder ... 19-season/
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/07/wiggle- ... ws-digest/

ASO can run a men's race they are not legally compelled to run a women's race. If they were they (and every other sport) would need also para-event as this could be discriminatory.

"The fact is once the race is set up the cost of having a Women's race is minimal".
This is not true whilst that are many aspects that would be covered in both races supporting another race running at the same time requires it's own race convoy, policing, refereeing, doping control, logistics, medical cover ... . Also many of the start and finish venues are at full capacity.If 100 extra riders, plus team staff are also on the same race it makes situation unmanageable, there would need to be a separate women's race.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 7 Oct 2019, 7:37am
by eileithyia
Certainly no point the ladies riding in the same event as the men.... frankly no matter how much I believe in some aspects of equality, the strongest women would have very little ability to compete with the strongest men especially on the climbs and in the sprints, our power to weight ratios etc just do not match. The top amateur TT-ers I know are hitting top end of 200 watts to 300 watts within the womens field, the men are probably doing 400-500 watts, it is a vast difference.

The length of the men's stages often leads to some fairly boring formulaic racing; a break goes, the main bunch faff about as if on a club run, 40-50k to go they wake up and start to reel the break in... catch break but not too soon in case someone gets a winning break away, line out to get main man into sprint for the line.....
The shorter women's events are often full from early on, with some feisty racing, the ToB was particularly exciting this year.

The issues are with sponsorship, TV air time, and an already fairly packed calendar. If you sign up to Voxwomen newsletter, you will see the ladies have an equally packed calendar as the men do... with smaller teams it often means they could be racing more often, where the big men's teams have more choice over who is sent to which race. And as said even the men's pro ranks have issues with gaining sponsorship for the teams especially at lower ranks.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 5:16pm
by Flinders
We watch all the televised womens' races, but few of the men's races. The women's races just seem to us more interesting - they don't seem to get the nasty behaviors that turn me off sport either.

On the rare occasions I happen on football on the TV, I stop watching when I see the first intentional foul, attempt to cheat, or the first total histrionics about a contact with another player, whichever comes first. That means I have seldom seen more than about 10 continuous minutes of football since the 1980s (not to say it was better then, just that that's when I adopted this practice). :mrgreen:

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 10 Oct 2019, 6:40pm
by Sweep
Flinders wrote:We watch all the televised womens' races, but few of the men's races. The women's races just seem to us more interesting - they don't seem to get the nasty behaviors that turn me off sport either.

On the rare occasions I happen on football on the TV, I stop watching when I see the first intentional foul, attempt to cheat, or the first total histrionics about a contact with another player, whichever comes first. That means I have seldom seen more than about 10 continuous minutes of football since the 1980s (not to say it was better then, just that that's when I adopted this practice). :mrgreen:

Mm
I too don't like game playing in sport (am kind of old fashioned) but I rather doubt that women are inherently less inclined to game playing/politicking etc.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 11 Oct 2019, 2:16pm
by Vorpal
IMO, the honesty in sports is inversely correlated to the money involved.

Women's cycle racing and women's football end up generally being more honest than men's simply because there is less at stake.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 11 Oct 2019, 2:18pm
by Sweep
agree

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 19 Oct 2019, 8:00pm
by The utility cyclist
brynpoeth wrote:Because they could not keep up with the lads, except Beryl Burton perhaps

And because the TdF is a mon€y machine with a bit of cycling

Even the great BB would be left behind, not a great accelerator/sprinter and was known to be outsprinted in the ladies races after dragging the rest round a course so was tactically a bit naive in mass races.
In a race at the elite level out the corners she would increasingly lose places as do other weaker males in circuit racing. As the hills got greater that would also start to show and day after day of same she'd be so far behind she'd abandon or be removed before doing so having been dropped by a lot on the steeper stages.
Burton competed against British amateurs, ONE time she bested them, men who won what on the international stage, anything? McNamara won one national 12 hour, the rest were local TTs, She was outstanding, the men she competed against were, with all due respect to them, not international standard riders and they weren't road racers, they were mostly time triallers.

Re: Now to raise Hackles-The Tour de France

Posted: 23 Oct 2019, 12:47pm
by pjclinch
Sweep wrote:I too don't like game playing in sport


I know what you mean, but that statement comes across as a bit self contradictory... :wink: