UK Tricycle Riding

merseymouth
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby merseymouth » 21 May 2020, 9:30am

Hello the , If I read it right Trikegirl you are about 5ft 8in tall? If so the Pashley will be very limiting, also not the best regarding design or build quality!
Only the large wheel Pashley has decent support for the seat tube, with the 20in wheelers the seat tube has been known to snap low down, I knew of one chap who broke 2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you could easily manage a 21" or 22" touring trike, which crop up quite often. Small wheelers are very hard work, utility/shopping only.
As for fixed wheel triking? A very serious self-harming process, been there, done it, have the mental scars! They are evil machines. I rode my Higgins Diff trike on fixed once, traumatic experience. To use current terminology - "Avoid overwhelming the NHS" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Even with over 40 years aboard trikes under my wheels I wouldn't repeat the ordeal for any amount of money! Cowardy Custard me. MM

Trikegirl
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby Trikegirl » 21 May 2020, 2:53pm

Very interesting!

If poorly made, why do people say that a Pashley is what I need? I must admit, I read about breakage on the Picador so I inquired of a disability retail manager at a dealer and here is what he told me when asked what would he choose between the Pashley Picador and the Pashley Tri-1:


“The Tri-1 is certainly the stronger of the two models having the extra bracing on the lower section of the frame. I have in the passed seen older models of the Picador with snapped frames, these were 10 to 15 years old though.

The benefit of the Picador's gears is that you can change gear while stationary. So if you have to stop suddenly you can change it a low gear to set off. But you are limited to only three.

As it is hilly around you I would say that having the added gears that the Tri-1 offers would be a benefit.

The Tri-1 is also slightly more stable as the track base is wider and the centre of gravity of the frame slightly lower.”



The Tri-1 is 80 cm wide while the Picador is 70 cm. The Tri-1 is also 8 cm longer.

It is the Tri-1 that I am contemplating buying. The only other tricycles I could find were Jorvik and Scout - and Mission. If I recall correctly, they all have the smaller wheels. I can’t find larger wheeled tricycles anywhere.

tatanab
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby tatanab » 21 May 2020, 3:49pm

Trikegirl wrote:If poorly made, why do people say that a Pashley is what I need?
A problem here is that Merseymouth, Drossall and I are all long term club tricyclists used to the "the finer things in life". Good build standard, good parts, serviceability, and we have very high expectations. None of these matter to the market that makers of utility trikes aims for. For them it has to be comparatively cheap, instant gratification - hence the "just what I need" comments. Go back and ask them 10 years later and you will often find that it has been languishing at the bottom of the garden for some time or has been sold on eBay where there are usually dozens of them for sale. Pashley made a large wheeled trike some years ago, the Premier, which can sometimes be found on eBay, Gumtree or similar.

However - they are a tool for a job, which is usually short distance recreational, utility or as mobility aids. For your purpose, spending money on a second hand touring trike (properly made) will find a machine 20 years old and open a can of worms in changing parts to more modern items that suit your needs better. Merseymouth, Drossall and I have to be careful to temper our experience of enthusiasts' machines against the needs of the utility rider. Rather like an owner of an Italian sports car has to be careful advising somebody what to buy for a 5 mile drive to the supermarket.

Trikegirl
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby Trikegirl » 21 May 2020, 4:00pm

I understand completely; however, even though I want it for leisure I do want something that is decent quality.

I also read that a steel frame was better and Pashleys have a steel frame. Another make that is also steel - and with a bigger wheel of 24 inch available is Mission Trilogy.

My local dealer has been trying for a week to get a response from Pashley. I emailed them last week and still no response. I must admit this has me a bit concerned. I know they went back to work this week - plenty of time for them to respond. I might have to go with Mission.

merseymouth
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby merseymouth » 21 May 2020, 4:31pm

Hi trikegirl, I had a conversation a while back with a lady on the management of Pashley. She asked why I had stated that a minor re-design of the Piccolo would help them to make a better product.
It was a simple mod, which would address a very weak spot in their design.
If you look at the seat-stays on that model you'll see that they go down to the rear about 3 inches apart, almost vertically. That offers no worthwhile support for the seat tube, so with anyone heavier than a fairy onboard it stresses the tube at the bottom. As I said, I knew of a man who had snapped two frames, was about to break a third????????????????????
By simply splaying the stays outward it would triangulate the support, hence better support!
Just look at a good tricycle design and it will be quite explanatory. I should have saved my breath, 20 years on they still knock out crepe!
To see the point check out a KG Rogers 20" wheel Uni-sex trike, maybe Tatanab could post a few smudges to illustrate the point?
A KGR Uni-sex machine would be a good project for you? I believe there is one floating about on Fleabay???
Tatanab's Machine would make you envious, neat & fleet. TTFN MM

tatanab
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby tatanab » 21 May 2020, 4:56pm

rogers small.jpg
Rogers small after2.JPG

This is what MM was talking about. A well designed utility frame. Well designed not only from the point of view of good frame bracing, but also quite cheap to make even though it incorporates a known design of axle. These were made late 70s early 80s. The first photo is as I collected it, no joke- it had been at the bottom of a garden for 10 years and much more. The second picture is after I replaced all the parts with more modern parts to suit my taste and made changes that ONLY a tricycle enthusiast would know about. Something like this is not a serious proposition for you, although they can be bought cheaply (mine was expensive at £50) but you would spend a lot getting it roadworthy - that is if you could find a bike shop with the knowledge to do it. Most would run a mile. Why did I do it - because I needed a project.

Edit to add an advertising photograph from "back in the day"
Ken-Rogers-Utility.jpg
Last edited by tatanab on 21 May 2020, 5:53pm, edited 2 times in total.

merseymouth
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby merseymouth » 21 May 2020, 5:14pm

Do I smell the whiff of sexist, classification of posters mechanical ability as being too low? :shock: :roll: :wink: .
If a reasonable KGR machine was sourced any reasonably capable fettler could match your efforts, the parts are out there.
But I do believe that firms such as Pashley & Mission could take a leaf out of the KGR Shed Concern to produce a much better product than they currently make, not Rocket Science!
After over forty years the machine s long overdue, making machines out of scaffolding poles should be left in the Fitt era! There is a need and I would say a market, but the current makers need to go the way of Burrell & Fowler. IGICB MM

drossall
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby drossall » 22 May 2020, 8:41am

The OP was looking for quality. A new Trykit one would probably be out of budget, but sports trikes, including straight-bar ones, do come up second hand from time to time. The Tricycle Association only circulates adverts to members, but is a good source. Obviously there's eBay, as long as you're confident of being able to assess the condition of a machine. Because the market is limited, trikes sometimes sell for rather less than they are worth, which is unfortunate for owners.

merseymouth
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby merseymouth » 22 May 2020, 8:57am

Hi tatty :D , Thank you for posting those images, especially the contemporary ad shot. I still contend that such a machine was far superior to both of the current offerings to non-dedicated trikies. That KGR should be in production today, indeed some folk who ordered one in 1979 may still be awaiting delivery :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .
Maybe Ken should make a comeback. MM

Vorpal
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby Vorpal » 22 May 2020, 9:53am

merseymouth wrote:Do I smell the whiff of sexist, classification of posters mechanical ability as being too low? :shock: :roll: :wink: .
If a reasonable KGR machine was sourced any reasonably capable fettler could match your efforts, the parts are out there.

It's not sexist. The OP has already indicated that she does not feel knowledgeable enough to purchase secondhand.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

tatanab
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby tatanab » 22 May 2020, 9:58am

Vorpal wrote:It's not sexist. The OP has already indicated that she does not feel knowledgeable enough to purchase secondhand.
No problem. I know MM and he was just poking fun at me.

merseymouth
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby merseymouth » 22 May 2020, 11:12am

Wow :shock: , Me wind Tatty up :roll: :roll: , many years of two way pecking especially because he is younger than me :oops: .
Sometimes my wording loses the sharp edge that face to face sniping ensures, but he is a good mate.
I think we both agree that the absence of an affordable, decent entry level utility machine is harmful to the trike fraternity. Mission & Pashley can't possibly be machines that inspire any level of trike passion, in fact quite the reverse. There is a market I'm sure for affordable access to cycling for people who can't or even don't want to ride fall over machines. A 21st Century recreation of the KGR 20" Unisex Trike would be a great start. TTFN MM

Cyril Haearn
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby Cyril Haearn » 22 May 2020, 11:46am

I should certainly like to try one
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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hercule
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby hercule » 22 May 2020, 7:29pm

merseymouth wrote:Wow :shock: , Me wind Tatty up :roll: :roll: , many years of two way pecking especially because he is younger than me :oops: .
Sometimes my wording loses the sharp edge that face to face sniping ensures, but he is a good mate.
I think we both agree that the absence of an affordable, decent entry level utility machine is harmful to the trike fraternity. Mission & Pashley can't possibly be machines that inspire any level of trike passion, in fact quite the reverse. There is a market I'm sure for affordable access to cycling for people who can't or even don't want to ride fall over machines. A 21st Century recreation of the KGR 20" Unisex Trike would be a great start. TTFN MM


It’s probably going to be heresay to say this in this company, but I think that market is being slowly taken up by recumbent trikes - maybe not new, but you can get a nice recumbent trike in good condition for £1000 or so which isn’t much more than a new Tri-1 - and something like a Trice is going to be of far higher quality.

IGMC

tatanab
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Re: UK Tricycle Riding

Postby tatanab » 22 May 2020, 9:03pm

hercule wrote:It’s probably going to be heresay to say this in this company, but I think that market is being slowly taken up by recumbent trikes - maybe not new, but you can get a nice recumbent trike in good condition for £1000 or so which isn’t much more than a new Tri-1 - and something like a Trice is going to be of far higher quality.
That makes me chuckle - I imagined my 90 year old mother getting down into a recumbent trike to fetch a loaf of bread from the baker's. :D I don't really see a recumbent trike as being the future for utility purposes, but something very upright and staid with a huge wire basket. A basket the size of this one, just tied on for a joking photograph a while ago - the silver carrier is from the small wheeled Rogers and I bought the folding basket a while back simply because it was available. It is rather heavy.
20_6b8c5fcacefad6baa6c90de1c2533a7c_t.jpg
Ten years ago I met an 86 year old gent on a heavily loaded recumbent trike at the top of Ballon des Vosges, but of course he was an enthusiast.

On the point of costs, you cannot put a brand new club riders trike on the road for much, if any, under £4000 (like the one in the picture). A week later you'd have trouble selling it for much more than £1000. Indeed, you can get a well equipped second hand machine for £500 or so. I have one for sale as it happens. Limited market you see, as I know you understand.

To be of use to the utility market, a trike really needs to be less than £500 new. There are manufacturers who manage that, but I believe they all use the horrible axle that I think is mass produced in China, and they all have narrow seat stays.