Alternative touring?
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Alternative touring?
We're a family of 2.5 adults (well the 0.5 it's a 4 year old) and I'm not really happy with our kit.
We did a series of mini tours in Scotland with short runs out from a base with 3 or 4 days out at a time. We had solo bikes but mtb and gravel bikes so no front panniers were possible. Our kit list was too much and it ended up being an over loaded trailer, 4 panniers (2 half empty to fit under child seat) and kit on top of my rack. This was totally impractical and virtually unmanageable on my part.
I'm wondering about other forms of cycling. Tandem with the kid on the back seems a good idea. That would allow 4 panniers plus rack on the tandem and 2 panniers plus rack on my partner's bike. That would mean me and my partner's relative strengths get evened out. Basically I get more load.
All a good solution but I really should not have seen a picture of a recumbent! Seriously it started a web search that's possibly going to kill my bank.balance.
Any ideas or suggestions on tandem or recumbent options for touring?
Basically I think it's me carrying most of the kit on a recumbent of some form, partner on her mtb carrying child on a seat. Or me with a lot but not as much kit on a tandem with 4.5 year old on the rear with crank extenders and my partner on her mtb with fully loaded rear panniers and rack. Or a recumbent tandem or solo trike or tandem trike in the mix somehow.
Do recumbent bikes take luggage well? Would trike be better?
What would your recommendations be? Tandem, trike, tandem trike, or just sort out better touring bikes with front bags too?
BTW I visited jd tandems in Yorkshire. Oh boy if I won the lottery!!! Nice kit and the lass giving us advice was very knowledgeable. If there's a recumbent shop near north Lancashire please let me know where. I'll find an excuse to drive past on the way to somewhere like I did with that tandem shop.
Basically any comments on the various alternative human powered transport styles would be most helpful. Thank you for your patience in reading this and in advance for your replies should you make any.
We did a series of mini tours in Scotland with short runs out from a base with 3 or 4 days out at a time. We had solo bikes but mtb and gravel bikes so no front panniers were possible. Our kit list was too much and it ended up being an over loaded trailer, 4 panniers (2 half empty to fit under child seat) and kit on top of my rack. This was totally impractical and virtually unmanageable on my part.
I'm wondering about other forms of cycling. Tandem with the kid on the back seems a good idea. That would allow 4 panniers plus rack on the tandem and 2 panniers plus rack on my partner's bike. That would mean me and my partner's relative strengths get evened out. Basically I get more load.
All a good solution but I really should not have seen a picture of a recumbent! Seriously it started a web search that's possibly going to kill my bank.balance.
Any ideas or suggestions on tandem or recumbent options for touring?
Basically I think it's me carrying most of the kit on a recumbent of some form, partner on her mtb carrying child on a seat. Or me with a lot but not as much kit on a tandem with 4.5 year old on the rear with crank extenders and my partner on her mtb with fully loaded rear panniers and rack. Or a recumbent tandem or solo trike or tandem trike in the mix somehow.
Do recumbent bikes take luggage well? Would trike be better?
What would your recommendations be? Tandem, trike, tandem trike, or just sort out better touring bikes with front bags too?
BTW I visited jd tandems in Yorkshire. Oh boy if I won the lottery!!! Nice kit and the lass giving us advice was very knowledgeable. If there's a recumbent shop near north Lancashire please let me know where. I'll find an excuse to drive past on the way to somewhere like I did with that tandem shop.
Basically any comments on the various alternative human powered transport styles would be most helpful. Thank you for your patience in reading this and in advance for your replies should you make any.
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Re: Alternative touring?
I've seen pictures of people fully loaded on a recumbent trike. 2 side bags (each about 20 litres on the seat), pannier rack with a pair of panier bags and a big trailer. This has just reminded me of a YouTube video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg1Wzsz00dM
This guy has spent a lot of money but you can at least get an idea of what kind of options are open to a recumbent trike. I have the ICE Sprint and I'm aiming for something similar to this (just a lot cheaper).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg1Wzsz00dM
This guy has spent a lot of money but you can at least get an idea of what kind of options are open to a recumbent trike. I have the ICE Sprint and I'm aiming for something similar to this (just a lot cheaper).
Re: Alternative touring?
A recumbent trike can carry a phenomenal amount of gear - but the luggage costs can add up... A trailer should be two wheeled, preferably with the same wheel size and track width as the trike.
A recumbent bike has many of the same options as a DF, front panniers can often be mounted on a rack under the seat, with rear panniers being conventional. A trailer can be two or one wheeled (since the bike leans as a DF would)
I'd be thinking about that 4 year old though.
They aren't that far off wanting to join in and then transition to a solo for at least some of the time.
I'd be thinking about a high quality follow system for when they are able to stay on they bike (rather than in a fully supported seat/trailer) for your journeys.
I'd also be thinking about the logistics of where you cycle - do you run on single track muddy ground or not - a trike will present issues in that environment that can outweigh any other consideration (of course if you're made of money then an ICE FAT will sail over most stuff )
One option is to go half recumbent - the Hase Pino would be a great platform for the 4y/o for a while, they can pedal as and when they want to, but can just sit and go to sleep. They get a great vie, and are close to the captain to have conversations etc.
Cost, again, is a factor - but resale value is quite high, and you could always suggest that another adult might like the comfy seat sometimes after the 4y/o has graduated.
(That video looks like Tiger on a short trip )
A recumbent bike has many of the same options as a DF, front panniers can often be mounted on a rack under the seat, with rear panniers being conventional. A trailer can be two or one wheeled (since the bike leans as a DF would)
I'd be thinking about that 4 year old though.
They aren't that far off wanting to join in and then transition to a solo for at least some of the time.
I'd be thinking about a high quality follow system for when they are able to stay on they bike (rather than in a fully supported seat/trailer) for your journeys.
I'd also be thinking about the logistics of where you cycle - do you run on single track muddy ground or not - a trike will present issues in that environment that can outweigh any other consideration (of course if you're made of money then an ICE FAT will sail over most stuff )
One option is to go half recumbent - the Hase Pino would be a great platform for the 4y/o for a while, they can pedal as and when they want to, but can just sit and go to sleep. They get a great vie, and are close to the captain to have conversations etc.
Cost, again, is a factor - but resale value is quite high, and you could always suggest that another adult might like the comfy seat sometimes after the 4y/o has graduated.
(That video looks like Tiger on a short trip )
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: Alternative touring?
Road touring only. At most it would be cycle paths with good surfaces. For example this year it's Netherlands or Germany for 2 weeks. I want to do weekends too. Plus leisure rides.
Our kid has just got the cycling thing last weekend. A month ago he did his first faltering pedals downhill on a tarmac away from road path but he didn't go far. Last weekend he rode and rode and rode. He went from not riding to starting off with our help to starting and stopping on his own in a matter of 10 minutes. By the end he was racing me, I was running ahead of him and I was glad when he stopped saying he was tired. I was so proud of him. Not least because he's grown out of the bike but still managed to learn to ride. It just clicked with him.
We think he's too young for a tandem. We're worried he'll fall asleep. Well my partner is. I reckon he'll be attached to the pedals and won't sleep.
We like the follow-me attachment. Expensive but better than a Trailgator I reckon. Trouble is with a new bike it's a lot of cost and I'm not sure it'll work for touring. BTW he's on a 12" now but it's too small. What size it's best after that 16"? Would a 16" be ok to tour with on a follow me? If not it's child seat this year and think long and hard about next year. Tandem would be one idea next year.
Our kid has just got the cycling thing last weekend. A month ago he did his first faltering pedals downhill on a tarmac away from road path but he didn't go far. Last weekend he rode and rode and rode. He went from not riding to starting off with our help to starting and stopping on his own in a matter of 10 minutes. By the end he was racing me, I was running ahead of him and I was glad when he stopped saying he was tired. I was so proud of him. Not least because he's grown out of the bike but still managed to learn to ride. It just clicked with him.
We think he's too young for a tandem. We're worried he'll fall asleep. Well my partner is. I reckon he'll be attached to the pedals and won't sleep.
We like the follow-me attachment. Expensive but better than a Trailgator I reckon. Trouble is with a new bike it's a lot of cost and I'm not sure it'll work for touring. BTW he's on a 12" now but it's too small. What size it's best after that 16"? Would a 16" be ok to tour with on a follow me? If not it's child seat this year and think long and hard about next year. Tandem would be one idea next year.
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Re: Alternative touring?
Or a Circe Morpheus as an alternative to the Hase Pino - that's what we plumped for. By buying the frame and then getting an LBS to build it up, it came in significantly below Circe's list price (and a long way below Hase's!). The Morpheus isn't separable like the Pino, so you'll need a sturdy roof rack to transport it anywhere, but that said I believe there have been some issues with frame failures around the coupling on the Pino.
Fairhurst Junior does sometimes fall asleep on the front seat on the Morpheus, but then he's only 10 months old so that's forgivable! Generally he loves it.
My sister's son is four years old and he's just starting out as the stoker on a Bike Friday Family Tandem, which is a separable and very adjustable standard tandem. He loves it so far but he's not yet been any further than the Co-op...
Fairhurst Junior does sometimes fall asleep on the front seat on the Morpheus, but then he's only 10 months old so that's forgivable! Generally he loves it.
My sister's son is four years old and he's just starting out as the stoker on a Bike Friday Family Tandem, which is a separable and very adjustable standard tandem. He loves it so far but he's not yet been any further than the Co-op...
Last edited by Richard Fairhurst on 28 Apr 2017, 12:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alternative touring?
I would say that the closest recumbent shop to you is in Glasgow and is called Kinetics (http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/) . Kinetics is run by a gentleman called Ben. I bought a bike from him, he is very knowledgeable and when I was there gave me lots to time and advice. He is also a man who knows how to make stuff so if you want something custome to help with carrying stuff and cant find it he may be able to make it. I have also visited Laid back bikes (http://www.laid-back-bikes.scot/) in Edinburgh which is also a very good shop (I didn't buy the bike as it wasn't what I wanted when I rode it).
Both sell different makers of recumbents and both are happy for you to try out different bikes to see what will fit you and/or your family. I would have no hesitation on buying my next bike from either shop.
Both sell different makers of recumbents and both are happy for you to try out different bikes to see what will fit you and/or your family. I would have no hesitation on buying my next bike from either shop.
Lonely recumbent rider
HP Velotechnik Street Machine GTe
Metabikes Metaphysics
Hase Pino
HPV Velotechnik Scorpion
HP Velotechnik Street Machine GTe
Metabikes Metaphysics
Hase Pino
HPV Velotechnik Scorpion
Re: Alternative touring?
Tangled Metal wrote:Road touring only. At most it would be cycle paths with good surfaces. For example this year it's Netherlands or Germany for 2 weeks. I want to do weekends too. Plus leisure rides.
Our kid has just got the cycling thing last weekend. A month ago he did his first faltering pedals downhill on a tarmac away from road path but he didn't go far. Last weekend he rode and rode and rode. He went from not riding to starting off with our help to starting and stopping on his own in a matter of 10 minutes. By the end he was racing me, I was running ahead of him and I was glad when he stopped saying he was tired. I was so proud of him. Not least because he's grown out of the bike but still managed to learn to ride. It just clicked with him.
We think he's too young for a tandem. We're worried he'll fall asleep. Well my partner is. I reckon he'll be attached to the pedals and won't sleep.
We like the follow-me attachment. Expensive but better than a Trailgator I reckon. Trouble is with a new bike it's a lot of cost and I'm not sure it'll work for touring. BTW he's on a 12" now but it's too small. What size it's best after that 16"? Would a 16" be ok to tour with on a follow me? If not it's child seat this year and think long and hard about next year. Tandem would be one idea next year.
Get the size that's right, can't recall what the FollowMe recommendation is - but I'd listen to it. That should last a good few bikes!
MiniBob went from 14" straight to 20" wheels IIRC - and to an Islabike rather than one heavier than my DF.
The other option is something like a WeeHoo? It's a trailer, but with seat and pedals, so Kid can pedal as they want or fall asleep...
You lose the independence when you arrive somewhere, but they are cheaper than the Trets (which has a removeable front wheel to allow that independence, but is a trike)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Re: Alternative touring?
Tandems and laidback would work, but surely you could solve the issue with a trailer and carrying less? If you want an excuse to buy a circle Helios then go for it, but one trailer for child/stuff and a couple panniers should see you reet.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
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Re: Alternative touring?
Last year we met, in the Netherlands, a Danish couple riding a conventional flat barred tandem with a tandem trailer bike for their two young children. Looked very capable although Looong!
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Re: Alternative touring?
Did the trailer thing last year. Adventure at1 single wheel trailer. Hard work and doesn't feel very much like the right option. TBH I suspect it's partly my bike not being a full tourer that's a bigger issue. Towing a single wheel trailer isn't a stable ride. I learnt to cope but took half an hour of stopping and starting before I got used to it's instability. Seriously we set off from where we left the car and I nearly fell off my bike! I seriously thought I'd not be be able to tow it. Persevered and has a good trip but I.don't want to do it that way again.
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Re: Alternative touring?
If we go tandem it'll be one adult and our child on tandem second adult on their solo bike. I don't like the idea of one long bike for all of us.
Re: Alternative touring?
There are advantages to a semi-recumbent (we have a Morpheus, but the the same applies to the Pino) -
- it'll adjust in size as your youngster grows
- your lad can free wheel whilst you pedal
- you could remove the front pedals, boom and chain completely, substituting foot pegs
- a harness can be arranged for his security on the seat, as required
- strong stand to enhance security whilst he's mounting
- 4 panniers are easy. Seat slung bags can also be used (we do)
- good communications
- you can keep a eye on him
- your partner can grow into it later on
There are disadvantages -
- he cops all the bad weather
- it's heavy
- it's difficult to transport
- it's not cheap
- it'll adjust in size as your youngster grows
- your lad can free wheel whilst you pedal
- you could remove the front pedals, boom and chain completely, substituting foot pegs
- a harness can be arranged for his security on the seat, as required
- strong stand to enhance security whilst he's mounting
- 4 panniers are easy. Seat slung bags can also be used (we do)
- good communications
- you can keep a eye on him
- your partner can grow into it later on
There are disadvantages -
- he cops all the bad weather
- it's heavy
- it's difficult to transport
- it's not cheap
Re: Alternative touring?
Whatever you choose test it before then it day!
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Re: Alternative touring?
Tangled Metal wrote:If we go tandem it'll be one adult and our child on tandem second adult on their solo bike. I don't like the idea of one long bike for all of us.
TM
If you are considering a tandem have a look at Performer: http://www.performercycles.com/new/index.php?cPath=164. They provide reasonable quality at a good price. My wife and I have two of their trikes and we've been pretty happy with them.
Cheers
Ken
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Re: Alternative touring?
Hi there, I realise that this question was posted three months ago, but have you decided on a suitable combination of cycles for your family yet? I have a recumbent tandem trike which I am looking to sell. I will be advertising it on the forum shortly. it is a custom built machine from Kinetics in Glasgow. The model is a "duplex" and the price will be £3450. I am based in Staffordshire, 8 miles from M6 J14. You are welcome to come and view it if you think it could be the way you would like to go.