Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

What exactly is counter steering?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

To steer left on a bike you turn the wheel slightly to the right initially.

That then means you fall to the left and make that corner.

If you don't believe it - try riding an upright trike, it's HILARIOUS
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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pjclinch
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

Tangled Metal wrote:Steering does worry me.


You can go in thinking "it's different, it may well be awkward" or you can go in thinking "it's a bike, of course I can ride it". I suspect there's a fair correlation between that and riding problems (or lack thereof), because if you're worried you'll tend to go for a Death Grip on the bars and that makes them much harder to ride (just like an upwrong, if you think about it).

Tangled Metal wrote:Anyone own or used an Optima recumbent before? What are they like? I believe they stopped making them for awhile a few years back, and not sure they restarted again. Parts an issue?


I tried a couple when my wife and I took a break in NL to test 'bents for her, and they were okay, though Kinetics stopped stocking them because finish was rather variable (this is not an issue for an individual, you just check that your bike is good, but it's a nightmare for a dealer). The thing about parts is that aside from the frame and bars 'bents tend to use pretty standard kit, and in the event that something non-standard did go The Way of The Pear someone like Kinetics could always cruft you up a new bit.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

You should have seen me on my upright flat barred bike. Jeez I never felt safe for the first few hours riding along the Canal near me. It was the nearest away from traffic for and I was never confident of stay out of the Canal. I've been a drop bar rider since 9 years old and to me flat barred hybrid was too wide. It's funny how such a simple thing as width of grip puts you out of sorts.

Well I was on after 15 minutes with the wobble dying down but I still wasn't comfortable. Ended up going back to drop bars a year later.

Having said that night do have a positive attitude and I know I'll get used to recumbent Steering quickly enough. It's just familiarization which happens quick enough with practice.

Now unicycle I still have trouble with. And I reckon that bike with opposite steering I've seen on YouTube is possibly capable of flummoxing me for quite some time. I'd still like to try it out. However it can all be learnt eventuality.
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pjclinch
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

Tangled Metal wrote:
Now unicycle I still have trouble with.


I can steer mine reasonably well (given the general lack of competence overall), but what I've never persevered enough to manage at all is backwards pedalling and, by extension, idling. Must dig it out again actually, and get some practice in as it's been too long.

Pete.
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squeaker
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by squeaker »

Tangled Metal wrote:And I reckon that bike with opposite steering I've seen on YouTube is possibly capable of flummoxing me for quite some time. I'd still like to try it out. However it can all be learnt eventuality.
Probably apocryphal, but years ago I was told that Morgan built a car 'for the boss' with reversed steering, as an experiment. Proved OK with practice, but then said boss drove the next standard Morgan he was in into a wall :roll: It's all in the mind ;)
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

There is another issue with two wheel bent steering and that is they don't like loose gravel or very soft muddy surfaces.
The front wheel slides more than on an upright.IMHO.
Even wet conditions on normal roads, esp if diesel film present, can result in the front wheel sliding.
It's something you get used to!

Smooth dry tarmac is fantastic though and it takes a hellofa upwong rider to hold onto a bent on a twisting descent of decent surface.
Probably not possible actually, given a bold bent rider- low center of gravity, low wind resistance etc, the limit on the bent is often one's own "bottle".

Thrilling hardly describes such a descent!!
The recumbent grin!
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squeaker
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by squeaker »

PDQ Mobile wrote:There is another issue with two wheel bent steering and that is they don't like loose gravel or very soft muddy surfaces.
Isn't that more of a small front wheel issue? My Dahon folder's pretty sketchy on gravel (but you can move your body around if quick enough). Never ridden a big wheeled 'bent so may well be wrong :?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I had cause to emergency stop on my upright the other day with a bit of a squirm going on. Made me wonder what a recumbent would have done in that situation. Probably I'd deck out somehow.

It's got me worrying about winter riding. There are two sections near work where I've either come a cropper or nearly. If that happens despite long experience of uprights what chance would I have on a recumbent? Still not anything to stop me getting one.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

I've washed out on gravel at 22mph - but it was a rear wheel slide, and I just ended up a few inches lower...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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pjclinch
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

Because "recumbents" represent a pretty wide class of vehicle I'd suggest handling issues are very much down to individual geometry.

The Streetmachine, being a short wheel base, has a fair chunk of weight on the front wheel and I've never found any problems with the handling that wouldn't be explained by poor surfaces which could well have got me in any case. A small front wheel being the issue would mean my Brom and Moulton would both give terrible trouble, but neither do. In practice, gravel (and indeed mud too) is more about the tyres than anything else. Being able to get out the saddle for balancing movements helps on marginal surfaces, bit on the whole bikes as a whole, recumbent or otherwise, do not do well on loose gravel if anything other than straight lines are involved, and you need knobbly tyres for mud if anything like control is the order of the day.

I've had to do an emergency stop on the Streetmachine at a considerable of speed. It caused me to do a stoppie, but nothing worse than that. Chances are I'd have been over the bars on the upwrongs if I'd deployed that sort of stopping power.

The full-sus really does seem to make a difference on sketchy surfaces. On my shake-down cruise around Arran I was screaming down a beautifully surfaced B-road hill, one of those with signs that tell you the work was paid for by the EU, and I came around a tightish bend to find that was where the money had obviously run out and I was about to hit a potholed ruin at about 30 mph on a curve. Thoughts of doom certainly crossed my mind, but the bike tracked straight through it all without much issue.
On another occasion, out with a pal on her road bike for a rural hack, we went through potholes at unavoidable speed and the difference was she shrieked with pain as her wrists took a major pounding and I thought, "oh, that's what the front fork bottoming out sounds like".
A local CTC run last year across the Fife hills we had a tricky technical descent on marginally surfaced roads with many blind corners, and I left the road bike brigade well behind thanks to the assured handling and braking at speed that's just streets ahead of a road bike.
And if you do fall off, the seat offers some protection and you don't have so far to fall...

Pete.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

The rear wheel squirm on an upright is fun but not on a bendy but fast one in four hill in the wet. Front wheel squirm was what I had on the flat the other day. Not at fun.

Now I'm used to the limits on a 700c upright. Not sure what effect wheel size and recumbent position has in similar conditions.
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

squeaker wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:There is another issue with two wheel bent steering and that is they don't like loose gravel or very soft muddy surfaces.
Isn't that more of a small front wheel issue? My Dahon folder's pretty sketchy on gravel (but you can move your body around if quick enough). Never ridden a big wheeled 'bent so may well be wrong :?


Yes probably that too.
However i think the longer the wheelbase then the tendency for the front wheel to slide is greater as a general statement.
But geometry plays a role too, I think.
The non ability to ride hands free is also to do with this geometry. Bents have slack head angle? Or?
Brucey may well understand this.

My PDQ much more able in the tight maneuverability stakes than a SMGT. But SMGT a better all round ride.
Agree that front sus is great help at fast cornering on less than even surfaces-difference to non sus almost day and night actually.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Cunobelin »

I must admit that I have never even noticed!
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Cunobelin
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Cunobelin »

REverse forks were once an "innovation" for recumbents.

The original Mochet design had models withe. reverse fork, and it has been tried again since.

The Longstaff built and FutureCycles designed Street Glider was a classic example:

Image


So did Mike Burrows' short dalliance with a long wheelbase design:

Image
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