Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

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Tangled Metal
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Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Recumbent steering looks like a different motion to upright bike steering. What is the difference compared with upright bikes?

On an upright you move right hand forward left hand back to turn left.

Looking at tiller steering (as on a recumbent recommended for me) looks like you move both hands to the right to turn left. Is this right? It looks like the grip part of the steering moves to the opposite side to the direction you want to turn.

It seems to me that USS is similar. True or false?

Now superman steering, what's the action there?

Is there any recumbent Steering that feels and acts closely to an upright bike? I'm looking at an optima lynxx BTW (dtek suggestion). Steering IMHO is important to get the feel of quickly I reckon. Will it be easy make the change to tiller steering? Is it possible/advisable to change a recumbent's steering from the oem type?

Any opinions?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

You can change bar types to go from tiller to superman...

But I'd not worry unduly. The action is sufficiently different that it's quite natural to switch between upwrong and whatever you have on a bent.

USS can be moving hands left and right (kmx) or forward/backward (ICE)
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

What about feeling on the grips? The hands are higher up than other bike steering. Do you not get issues with comfort from that? Do you not have to shake out every so often like when climbing?
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pjclinch
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

Tangled Metal wrote:Recumbent steering looks like a different motion to upright bike steering. What is the difference compared with upright bikes?

On an upright you move right hand forward left hand back to turn left.


I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that...

Ride your upwrong along sat as upright as you can, no hands if you're happy (otherwise fingertip pressure), and give the bars a gentle nudge forwards with your right hand (a nudge, don't hold on to the bar). That will initiate a counter-steer and you'll turn right, not left! The moral of the story being that on a bike, steering is far more about balance and leaning than what you notionally do with the bars, and it's very much the same on a 'bent. Most people steer any kind of bike by looking where they want to go and letting their subconscious and the bike's handling characteristics do the rest, rather than consciously thinking about the set of the bars.

I personally don't get on with tillers not because the action is weird, but I find a twitchy handling feeling going in a straight line. This is just me being a bit Crap, not an inherent limitation of tillers.

Do note that on a trike you have a different issue, which is (with certain lean-to-steer exceptions) leaning doesn't do much, and you have to move the steering to do most of the work. My first go on a 'bent trike was a Kettwiesel and off I went, and I repeatedly drifted down the camber and in to the kerb. Then I noticed the more it happened the more I was leaning to the right... with no effect aside from wondering why the steering wasn't working. The steering worked fine, I was simply making assumptions based on bike handling.

But in summary, don't over-think it. The answer to many 'bent questions is "just like you do on an upwrong", the most frequent being "how do you start?" (pedal ready one foot, other on the ground, push with the pedal foot and there you go) and "how do you steer?" (look where you're going and let your balance do the rest). Particularly for starting and steering don't hold the bars too tight. Unlike a sporty-crouch upwrong there is no need for any weight on the bars, and you can direct the bike reliably with only fingertip pressure. The harder you hang on the harder it is to steer (just like learning to ride an upwrong one-handed, in fact).

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Hands are in a different position, but far less stress on them, no weight at all mostly. So there is less need to 'shake out' than there is on most uprights.

How much do you need to shake out when driving a car? When sat on a sofa?
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Different but both thrilling at speed!
USS great for cool cruising and supreme comfort.
OSS arguably better in tight places.IMHO.

USS allows bar-end shifters, which combined with the right brake levers offer the most ergonomically perfect control of everything known to man - bar(no pun intended) none! :D
Braking with the 3rd,4th,5th fingers; gears with index finger and thumb. All available at all times, no hand movment required.

As far as I know there is no ( 2wheeled?) recumbent that can be ridden "hands free" which, if you think about it, is a shame!
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 23 Oct 2017, 12:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

Tangled Metal wrote:What about feeling on the grips? The hands are higher up than other bike steering. Do you not get issues with comfort from that? Do you not have to shake out every so often like when climbing?


There is no weight on your hands (or shoulders). For me this is the greatest comfort benefit of a 'bent compared to any "normal" bike bar the most absolutely bolt-upright. It may be an issue if you find driving particularly problematic for your hands, but that's not something people generally worry about in cars.

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OldBloke
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by OldBloke »

Tangled Metal wrote: On an upright you move right hand forward left hand back to turn left.

Looking at tiller steering (as on a recumbent recommended for me) looks like you move both hands to the right to turn left. Is this right? It looks like the grip part of the steering moves to the opposite side to the direction you want to turn.

It seems to me that USS is similar. True or false?

Now superman steering, what's the action there?

Is there any recumbent Steering that feels and acts closely to an upright bike? I'm looking at an optima lynxx BTW (dtek suggestion). Steering IMHO is important to get the feel of quickly I reckon. Will it be easy make the change to tiller steering? Is it possible/advisable to change a recumbent's steering from the oem type?

Any opinions?


With both USS and tiller steering I still find I'm using the same basic pull with one hand, push with the other that I did on an upright. Yes, a tiller does move sideways to some extent but you're still controlling it with the same basic pull/push hand movement.

Superman bars I would expect to be the same.

Generally, the recommendation is to ride as many different bikes as you can and see what suits you best. One friend found tiller better than superman, another seems to prefer superman.

OB
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pjclinch
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

PDQ Mobile wrote:As far as I know there is no ( 2wheeled?) recumbent that can be ridden "hands free" which if you think about it, is a shame!


The Flevobike and Flevobike Racer not only can be ridden hands-free, that's very much the default with the "handlebars" only used as places to mount controls. The bikes steer via a hinge in the middle which (I'm told) the rider effectively manipulates indirectly with their knees/legs... or something. Apparently not something everyone can ride!

Image

While I have absolute confidence that I'd crash if i tried riding my Streetmachine hands-free, I've heard reliable reports of people in the BHPC riding them fine. And while I find no-hands a no-no, a single pinky is enough for steering control and steady riding.

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I have to shake out a lot driving cars. I suspect that's more to do with some circulation issues. I get pins and needles lying down in my upper arm for example. GP has brushed out off as nothing to worry about but those tiller bars do concern me. I'll have to try one. I just wish it wasn't a 4 plus hour drive to the bike shop for potentially something I can't ride because of this.

USS does look like a kind of cruising type of steering. Like a car with the window down in summer and your arm resting on the window as you drive slowly past.
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Tangled Metal wrote:USS does look like a kind of cruising type of steering. Like a car with the window down in summer and your arm resting on the window as you drive slowly past.


You have it in a nutshell, sir!
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pjclinch
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by pjclinch »

Tangled Metal wrote:USS does look like a kind of cruising type of steering. Like a car with the window down in summer and your arm resting on the window as you drive slowly past.


That is particularly why I like USS. And while I can't do a rolling mount on my Streetmachine, a rolling dismount is easy enough without a bar stem in the way.

OSS is more aero, but I'm not in it for speed.

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I'm not sure why I want to be in it. There's a need for something new in cycling for me I think. Touring check, road bike as fast as I can yawn but check (currently my top speed before strava and commonsense was 58mph, I'm too scared to try and get close now). Off road on a road bike check. Off road on an mtb check yawn.

Now I've not been interested in BMX even back as a kid when it was popular. So I guess recumbent is the new interest for me with cycling. I'm never going to race so speed isn't it. Comfort isn't it because I've never been uncomfortable on a bike (even the rigid plastic seated kids sports bike I got at 9 years wasn't that bad). So it's the sense of being different.

I thought tandem was it last summer but tbh no family member wanted to ride with me. So recumbent is the new New for me.

Steering does worry me.

Anyone own or used an Optima recumbent before? What are they like? I believe they stopped making them for awhile a few years back, and not sure they restarted again. Parts an issue?
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by UpWrong »

Probably not much difference between steering a recumbent with ASS and steering a traditional dutch upright. The handlebar movement is the same providing the amount of tiller is small, say within 10" of the steering axis. That's been the case on all my 'bent bikes with the exception of the Metabikes which had much more tiller. My brain struggled to get the hang of that. I couldn't steer and signal at the same time.
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Re: Recumbent Steering - What's going on?

Post by squeaker »

Tangled Metal wrote:Recumbent steering looks like a different motion to upright bike steering. What is the difference compared with upright bikes?
You're over-thinking it, IMHO. Recumbent bike riding is 'different'. Not being able to significantly move your body means balancing via steering. As said above, counter-steering becomes far more important (in my case it was first time on a recumbent trike after a year or two on bikes that saw me nearly counter-steer into a wall - has anyone mentioned the tadpole trike benefit of 2 braked front wheels?). I suffer a bit from tennis elbow / painful wrists (need to shake out every 5 miles or so on a DF bike): no issue for me with hamster bars - you arms hang from them - but underseat is just as good IME.
Changing between over and under-seat steering can usually be done, but potentially expensive as the steering controls are usually 'bent specific - ask lots of questions about a specific model if you want that as an option.
(PS: recall seeing a video of a Catrike Musashi being ridden hands free for a significant distance - not something I've ever achieved, but IME you don't have to grip the bars at all, just a really light touch - gripping makes things 'difficult'!)
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