Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

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Alan58
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Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby Alan58 » 16 Mar 2018, 7:20am

some may know I am disabled - it is great to see that Google Maps is launching city maps of restricted access.

I had intended using NCN only for my LEJOG. This will prove to be impossible due to the barriers and restrictions on the route. My lack of mobility makes it difficult for me to get up and down from my trike.

I contacted Sustrans who told me they do not have information on what restrictions are in place on the routes. Sustrans consider themselves to be an inclusive organisation supporting people with disabilities.

It appears with my limited triking experience that Sustrans support two wheeled able bodied travel. I will have a clearer picture after I complete my LEJOG

I will on my return begin to compile some details on these restrictions

But once again WELL DO

thirdcrank
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Mar 2018, 7:49am

I became disillusioned with Sustrans long ago, but they are not directly responsible for a lot of what happens. They publish guidelines, which providers interpret to suit their own purposes but it is all viewed as "Sustrans." eg Where a range of options is suggested, providers tend to go for what I've referred to as the lowest common denominator, which can still be referred to as following Sustrans guidelines.

Here's their relevant policy with a further link in there to their detailed guidance.

https://www.sustrans.org.uk/our-positio ... rols-paths

If you conclude that this model of provision doesn't live up to the expectations it raised in you, you may have an idea why I became disillusioned. I'm not disabled btw.

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mjr
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby mjr » 16 Mar 2018, 9:32am

Klwnbug and others are slowly adding details of barriers to www.osm.org but we'd rather work on getting them removed where possible. Having complaints from someone blocked by these evil crash hazards would be great and much more difficult for the councils to ignore legally, but the fens are not on any sensible LEJOG route.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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brynpoeth
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby brynpoeth » 16 Mar 2018, 5:25pm

There is lots of interest in your trip on these fora, if I lived near the route I would offer to accompany you for a while, maybe others could do that

Seems scandalous to me that st does not have the info

Buildings, train stations etc have to be barrier-free, that is often beneficial to able-bodied people too. Should apply to cycle routes too
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mjr
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby mjr » 16 Mar 2018, 6:37pm

brynpoeth wrote:Buildings, train stations etc have to be barrier-free, that is often beneficial to able-bodied people too. Should apply to cycle routes too

It does, but the highway authorities responsible for erecting most of the barriers are currently regulated by... the highway authorities, under the banner of "localism". If you want to get them to obey the law, be rich enough to hire lawyers or swing elections.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bsteel
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby Bsteel » 16 Mar 2018, 6:50pm

mjr wrote:Klwnbug and others are slowly adding details of barriers to http://www.osm.org


Is there a standard symbol to indicate barriers ?

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mjr
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby mjr » 16 Mar 2018, 11:37pm

Bsteel wrote:
mjr wrote:Klwnbug and others are slowly adding details of barriers to http://www.osm.org


Is there a standard symbol to indicate barriers ?

They're ≠ on the standard map, but not showing on the cycle map at the moment and I don't know why.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

atlas_shrugged
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby atlas_shrugged » 17 Mar 2018, 9:11am

Great post and complete sympathies with the OP

Sustrans have taken a lot of flack for their anti-cycling barriers. I have asked about this and feedback I got was that in many cases barriers are a stipulation from landowners who do not want motorbikes and quadbikes on their land. What I have also noticed is that NCNs can sometimes take you all round the houses and small villages with their hidden junctions when there is a much quieter and more direct route available. I am thinking of the old A1 which runs south of Peterborough which is quiet and parallel to the new A1(M).

One the subject of getting OSM marked up so it can be interrogated for suitable routes for trikes, kiddie-carriers, and cargo bikes etc. This is a brilliant idea. I have looked at this and routes need tagging with this kind of information:

Barriers: Max width
Junctions: Max turning circle possible (measured outside wheel to outside wheel)
Junctions: Height transitions: Max upstand
Path: Max width, Max turning circle possible
Short Ramps: Max gradient (especially gradient transitions) - this to pin down sleeping policemen which cause grounding
Surface quality: InternationalRoughnessIndex, Camber,

I did not feel brave enough to start hacking OSM directly without agreement about what all these extra tags would be called and what they would mean. Once all the above attributes are added to a map e.g. OSM it them becomes possible to enter the attributes of the vehicle (e.g. width) and then for the app to generate the best feasible route - or at least to tag hazards along the way.

It is also worth pressing authorities to produce a specification for cycling and walking. Then areas that are non-compliant can be tagged and prioritised for remedial action. Oxfordshire have produced quite a good spec for example. Cambridgeshire on the other hand have no specification.

skelo
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby skelo » 19 Mar 2018, 10:10pm

as a fellow disabled tricyclist, I have sympathy with your plight! i am hoping to try LEJOG, or, more likely JOGLE next year. I hope you get on ok with it and are able to post some positive feedback!

I would also like to do the Trans Pennine Trail, but that looks nigh on impossible for me at the moment. :(

brynpoeth
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Mar 2018, 5:23am

I / We are right with the disabled tricyclists + bicyclists, would like to read of your struggles, problems, achievements
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Alan58
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby Alan58 » 20 Mar 2018, 7:16am

Hi my friends: sustrans have referred my issue of inadequate information to the “mapping team” for comment. I also contacted Scope: I am raising money on my LEJOG on my Justgiving page on behalf of Scope search Alan Connington and you will find me. Scope have referred my comments to the “policy team” for comment. I await replies.

Positive feedback: attending my personal trainer 3 times a week now. Doing miles on my Recumbent Trike - not this week to be fair. Did my Strava 100 Km - beginning to feel a bit apprehensive as I leave on the 6th May: but still good.

Issue at the moment: mounting my Garmin 700 so I can read it when the sun shines on my Ice Adventure: tried the centre post. :(

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Mar 2018, 7:53am

I have a mount on the mudguard arm, works pretty well for me.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Alan58
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby Alan58 » 20 Mar 2018, 7:56am

Cheers Bob: just got a mudguard mount in the post not tried it yet. Kind regards.

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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby Vorpal » 20 Mar 2018, 8:37am

CycleStreets has many, but not all barriers marked. Any barriers on OSM are included. Also, users have added photos and information to CycleStreets. You can see them, if you look at 'detailed directions'.

https://www.cyclestreets.net/journey/60448694/#quietest
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thirdcrank
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Re: Google Maps Disabled access Maps - Sustrans?

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Mar 2018, 9:04am

There's always some controversy on here about charity provision, be that cycle routes or raising money through sponsorship.

Here's the most recent guidance I can find about the latter

viewtopic.php?p=977822#p977822

On a wider note, a lot of charities are evolving. eg Scope was the subject of a critical review in Private Eye recently for having stopped being a provider of highly-regarded care and related services. A change to this:

We provide free, independent and impartial information and support on the issues that matter to disabled people and their families.


https://www.scope.org.uk/