Gears query

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belgiangoth
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Gears query

Postby belgiangoth » 17 Jun 2018, 4:17pm

Thought I would take all my "technical" questions over to here in one fell swoop.

Twist shifters on my bike are rather sticky, I have to put a lot of oompf into changing gears which makes me veer all over the place (they are a pig to change gears even when the cable is removed). I've never used twist-shifters before so my instinct was to switch to trigger shifters anyway. Followed a massive confusion over whether the shifters would be compatible or not. Questions are:
FD - will the front chainrings/shifters generally be road? Brucey suggests so, so I am inclined to believe him - my only query is that I didn't think there was such a thing as a road twist-shifter. Also, having not ridden with gears at the front for ~15 years, is it normal that you have to make a two-push or two-click change to change gear?
Shifter position - I find that my hands move naturally to be centre of the bars, on top of my brake levers (index fingers over the cable leaving the brakes) - is this an indication of a too low stem? I think I've seen headcam footage of other people riding like this. What would be the best shifter type/position for this? I am re-considering twist shifters (if I could find some good ones that are compatible) as they do shift in the right place (using base of hand and little finger).
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

recumbentpanda
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Re: Gears query

Postby recumbentpanda » 17 Jun 2018, 9:38pm

I too suffered from ‘unwanted steering input’ when using twist shifters on my OSS Nazca Fuego, so switched to triggers with happy results. On my more upright LWB Linear with USS, twisters were fine.

One click on either system should correspond to one gear. Different makers systems pull different amounts of cable, so you need shifters and mechs to be compatible. Sounds like you have unmatched components?

Recumbent gearing tends to be borrowed from mountain bikes, but a lot will depend on the type of bent and who built it/modified it.

Hands on top of the brakes/shifters on OSS ‘hamster bar’ type set ups seems to be a common thing. The very short ‘arrowhead’ style v-shaped bars is the only way round this, but then you are stuck with just the one hand position. On longer rides it’s good to be able to move hands around a bit. I have pondered making some kind of handrests to clip on top of shifter/brake bodies.

Hope this helps

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Gears query

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Jun 2018, 9:43pm

Front shifters often have several 'clicks' per gear - to allow for trimming of position as you move across the rear cassette.

I've got the arrow head bars on my raptobike, and either put my hands on the grips, which is pretty much neutral, but they do have to hang on slightly (need to maintain a curve to my fingers) or have them over the 'point' of the arrow head, slightly further from my thumb brake levers, but entirely neutral position - no stress on them at all - can ride like that for hours without any need to change position.

Grab a photo of the derailleur and the shifter, then we can actually tell what you have and what would be compatible. Or take it to a LBS and they'll do the same.
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OldBloke
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Re: Gears query

Postby OldBloke » 17 Jun 2018, 10:48pm

belgiangoth,

It would help to know
- what sort of bars?
- underseat, overseat?
- brand of rear derailleur, how many speed, road or mountain?


Shimano MTB 9(?), 10 and 11 speeds have a different pull ratio to road and SRAM.

OB

recumbentpanda
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Re: Gears query

Postby recumbentpanda » 18 Jun 2018, 6:47pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Front shifters often have several 'clicks' per gear - to allow for trimming of position as you move across the rear cassette.


I did not know that! Limited experience of indexed mtb set-ups I guess, all mine have been single click. Not so useful a feature I imagine, on a recumbent with long chain lines, and / or chain tubes. (FWD Raptobike a bit different on that score, does it have a use there?)

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Gears query

Postby [XAP]Bob » 18 Jun 2018, 7:01pm

Even less use on a rapto - or anything with an idler...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: Gears query

Postby Tigerbiten » 19 Jun 2018, 3:44pm

Since I've had my bent trike, I've always gone friction shift on the front and indexed shift on the back.

That way I can match the front mech to the size of the big chainring without the hassle of also matching the front mech cable pull to the lever.
This make it easier to run a silly wide range on the chainrings at the front.
You'll soon get used to how much you need to shift the lever to change gear.

belgiangoth
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Re: Gears query

Postby belgiangoth » 19 Jun 2018, 5:58pm

I remember learning gears before indexing, you just listened for the shift. Reckon it might be easier for the front mech.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

belgiangoth
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Re: Gears query

Postby belgiangoth » 19 Jun 2018, 6:03pm

OldBloke wrote:belgiangoth,
It would help to know
- what sort of bars?
- underseat, overseat?
- brand of rear derailleur, how many speed, road or mountain?
OB

This:
Imageimage by belgiangoth, on Flickr
Rear is a Deore 9Mega, front is Tiagra. So should be front:road, rear:MTB; should work with 3x10 road shifters though.
Picture is with microshifters in place (to see how they look/feel) instead of the twist-shifters. Both came with the bike.
I think I shall fit and try the right hand microshift, but if it's anything like the left hand one (too much force to shift) then I will need to consider an alternative, either second-hand deore for the back OR some new, better running twist-shifters.
I may even consider servicing the twist shifters I have, but I hear that's hard and they have seen better days.
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

belgiangoth
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm

Re: Gears query

Postby belgiangoth » 19 Jun 2018, 9:20pm

belgiangoth wrote:Shifter position - I find that my hands move naturally to be centre of the bars, on top of my brake levers (index fingers over the cable leaving the brakes) - is this an indication of a too low stem? I think I've seen headcam footage of other people riding like this.

Found it!
http://mccraw.co.uk/recumbent-attribution-error/
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

belgiangoth
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Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm

Re: Gears query

Postby belgiangoth » 19 Jun 2018, 11:21pm

belgiangoth wrote:FD - will the front chainrings/shifters generally be road? Brucey suggests so, so I am inclined to believe him - my only query is that I didn't think there was such a thing as a road twist-shifter. Also, having not ridden with gears at the front for ~15 years, is it normal that you have to make a two-push or two-click change to change gear?

Is the advantage of road mechs for laidbacks the range of chainrings that they can use? Unless you use USS the chances are you'll be using flar bar shifters, which means trigger or twist, how does that work with a road mech? Unless of course you go Campag or SRAM? (Campag only do road and have branched out into flat-bar; don't SRAM pull the same on road and MTB, or is it only at the rear?)
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

eddiewalkling
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Re: Gears query

Postby eddiewalkling » 20 Jun 2018, 12:36am

It seems I have inadvertently dodged some complicated gear syncing issues. Maybe not with those bars (although SJSC sell a straight bar mount, or used to) but I find bar end shifters, both on friction mode work so ergonomically and intuitively that nothing else comes close. I am though USS.

belgiangoth
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Re: Gears query

Postby belgiangoth » 27 Aug 2018, 6:24pm

Have sorted my gears and even managed a 5 mile round trip. There was quite a faff with front mech and it is still a pig to shift with the trigger shifters. I may revert to twist shifters, or change the mech/shifter to MTB and accept a smaller top front chainring (I go fast enough down hill without pedaling anyway).
If I had a baby elephant I would let it sleep in the garage in place of the car. If I had either a garage or a car. (I miss sigs about baby elephants)

Brucey
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Re: Gears query

Postby Brucey » 29 Aug 2018, 8:55pm

it would help to know what cable pull you have in your shifters; indexed shifters generally won't work with road and MTB type FDs.

A simple solution might be to use a thumbshifter, or bar-end shifter on a special bracket.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OldBloke
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Joined: 15 Jul 2014, 3:34am

Re: Gears query

Postby OldBloke » 30 Aug 2018, 1:52am

belgiangoth wrote:Have sorted my gears and even managed a 5 mile round trip. There was quite a faff with front mech and it is still a pig to shift with the trigger shifters. I may revert to twist shifters, or change the mech/shifter to MTB and accept a smaller top front chainring (I go fast enough down hill without pedaling anyway).


BG

If the trigger shifter is stiff, have you check that the cable inner moves freely and that the front mech swings easily. Either may need lubricating or replacing.

OB