Electric motor retrofit

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climo
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Electric motor retrofit

Postby climo » 17 Dec 2018, 10:02am

This should be over in the Electric Bike forum but I thought I'd get a better response here.
I want to retrofit an e-assist pedelec style motor to my HP Velotechnic 20in plus my wife's ICE 20in trike, both have Rohloffs. I expect lots of people have done this and I'd like to hear which brand they fitted and why. Bafang obviously is the market leader in terms of sales but I'd prefer a toque sensor though I know there's a gear sensor addon for the Bafang. I'm looking at a Sunstar which they've stopped making so it's end of line or the cheaper Tongshen which won't be as well engineered. Anyone know of any other makes at a reasonable price? There's the Pendix but it's very expensive.

What chainring for touring did you put on? Has anyone put on a double which is possible with the Tongshen. Of course a double shouldn't be needed but I'd like to stretch battery life if I can by pedaling as much as possible. I'd also like to hear what average mileage people are getting out of a 15aH battery on a loaded trike. I'm aware of the limitations of batteries on tour.

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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Dec 2018, 10:12am

I run a rear wheel motor, so not quite comparable to your intention... but my 10Ah battery will do a few days of 15miles each way commuting. Of course a good proportion of that is at speeds in excess of 15mph...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

OldBloke
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Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby OldBloke » 17 Dec 2018, 10:34am

I fitted a Tongsheng TSDZ2 250W to my wife's trike (Performer) and I'm about to add a Shimano Alfine 11 hubbed rear wheel. She has been pretty happy with the support she gets from the e-assist.

Some of the reasons for going with the TSDZ2:
- uses a torque sensor to control the motor which gives a more natural feel to peddling
- torque sensor and controller are contained within the motor which simplifies installation
- because of the quick response of the torque sensor the motor doesn't need brake cut-offs or gear sensors
- one of the lighter motors
- price - I bought the motor from one of the Chinese suppliers and the battery locally (Australia) and the total cost came in under A$1,000. Some of the Chinese suppliers have an EU presence which simplifies import and taxes, if you can get in before Brexit bites. Importing is a risk wrt warranty.

I did the installation myself, it was pretty straightforward.

Cheers

OB

climo
Posts: 470
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 8:08am
Location: Warminster

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby climo » 17 Dec 2018, 1:18pm

OldBloke wrote:I fitted a Tongsheng TSDZ2 250W to my wife's trike (Performer) and I'm about to add a Shimano Alfine 11 hubbed rear wheel. She has been pretty happy with the support she gets from the e-assist.

Some of the reasons for going with the TSDZ2:
- uses a torque sensor to control the motor which gives a more natural feel to peddling
- torque sensor and controller are contained within the motor which simplifies installation
- because of the quick response of the torque sensor the motor doesn't need brake cut-offs or gear sensors
- one of the lighter motors
- price - I bought the motor from one of the Chinese suppliers and the battery locally (Australia) and the total cost came in under A$1,000. Some of the Chinese suppliers have an EU presence which simplifies import and taxes, if you can get in before Brexit bites. Importing is a risk wrt warranty.

I did the installation myself, it was pretty straightforward.

Cheers

OB

Tongshen has a UK supplier so I'd buy from them. It gets decent reviews.
You're right about brexit as the £ will go down no matter how you voted- NOT getting political!!

climo
Posts: 470
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 8:08am
Location: Warminster

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby climo » 17 Dec 2018, 1:21pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:I run a rear wheel motor, so not quite comparable to your intention... but my 10Ah battery will do a few days of 15miles each way commuting. Of course a good proportion of that is at speeds in excess of 15mph...

That's very impressive. Do you use the lowest assist setting, how much do you pedal and is the route hilly or average terrain? Trying to get a feel for this from cyclists not regular people.

skelo
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Joined: 12 May 2016, 2:52pm

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby skelo » 17 Dec 2018, 9:07pm

I'm not sure that it is very comparable. but for what i's worth:

i have a Heinzmann Direct Drive system on my kettweisel. 8 speed Nexus Hub (wish I had a Rohloff) and diff on the rear. and single chainring up front. I am 6'3" 110kg with a paralysed left leg. on tour with two full 20L panniers and rack top box. I can get 80km max out of a single charge as long as I don't average above 16km/h - obviously that changes with terrain. my view is that the motor gives me too much help despite only having ever been on the lowest assist setting so I am thinking of trying to get the torque sensor re-calibrated. thinking of buying a second battery to lug around fully charged to increase/double my range

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Dec 2018, 10:22pm

climo wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:I run a rear wheel motor, so not quite comparable to your intention... but my 10Ah battery will do a few days of 15miles each way commuting. Of course a good proportion of that is at speeds in excess of 15mph...

That's very impressive. Do you use the lowest assist setting, how much do you pedal and is the route hilly or average terrain? Trying to get a feel for this from cyclists not regular people.


There a few hills it gets used on, as well as every time I take off from a standstill, if I’m having a bad week.

But so much of the journey is at over 15mph that it really isn’t working all that much of the time.

I’ll drill into a strata ride and grab some details.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

climo
Posts: 470
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 8:08am
Location: Warminster

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby climo » 17 Dec 2018, 11:38pm

skelo wrote:I'm not sure that it is very comparable. but for what i's worth:

i have a Heinzmann Direct Drive system on my kettweisel. 8 speed Nexus Hub (wish I had a Rohloff) and diff on the rear. and single chainring up front. I am 6'3" 110kg with a paralysed left leg. on tour with two full 20L panniers and rack top box. I can get 80km max out of a single charge as long as I don't average above 16km/h - obviously that changes with terrain. my view is that the motor gives me too much help despite only having ever been on the lowest assist setting so I am thinking of trying to get the torque sensor re-calibrated. thinking of buying a second battery to lug around fully charged to increase/double my range

That's interesting. People seem to get a high mileage with careful use. I too would carry a 2nd smaller battery though it all adds to the weight & bulk. How & where do you charge yours? I'm told that batteries can take 7 hours to charge which means as there's 2 of us and 4 batteries we'd have to carry an caravan type lead with a 4 way gang to charge them in the tent. More weight and serious bulk. I have a trailer....

skelo
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Joined: 12 May 2016, 2:52pm

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby skelo » 19 Dec 2018, 10:14pm

climo wrote:
skelo wrote:That's interesting. People seem to get a high mileage with careful use. I too would carry a 2nd smaller battery though it all adds to the weight & bulk. How & where do you charge yours? I'm told that batteries can take 7 hours to charge which means as there's 2 of us and 4 batteries we'd have to carry an caravan type lead with a 4 way gang to charge them in the tent. More weight and serious bulk. I have a trailer....


I see, that would be a problem, but I can't camp. I charge overnight in hostel/hotel or B&B for a full 6 hour charge sometimes get a top-up charge in cafe/pub over an extended lunch.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Dec 2018, 11:02pm

Picked a January ride at random...

14 miles, 451 feet, average speed 16.4mph.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

climo
Posts: 470
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 8:08am
Location: Warminster

Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby climo » 20 Dec 2018, 5:54pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Picked a January ride at random...

14 miles, 451 feet, average speed 16.4mph.

So how many of these rides does your battery last?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Dec 2018, 5:57pm

climo wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Picked a January ride at random...

14 miles, 451 feet, average speed 16.4mph.

So how many of these rides does your battery last?


I suspect it would do most of a week (although I never pushed it that far).
It was certainly fine after two days, although had lost a couple of notches on the crude internal meter.

I don't recall running it flat.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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WIGHTDIAMOND
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Re: Electric motor retrofit

Postby WIGHTDIAMOND » 30 Jan 2019, 7:16pm

climo wrote:This should be over in the Electric Bike forum but I thought I'd get a better response here.
I want to retrofit an e-assist pedelec style motor to my HP Velotechnic 20in plus my wife's ICE 20in trike


I'm looking to do the same on my QNT. Did you go for one yet?