Bike route gate size

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climo
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Bike route gate size

Postby climo » 27 Sep 2019, 5:38pm

A local landowner with a bike route through his land wants my advice on the size of gate he's specifically making so that trikes can pass through. He wants an arch. Here's what he wrote
"Would you be able to provide a picture of what you classify as a trike, we can then look at constructing a metal arch to facilitate this.
The issue is with a big gap is that 4 x 4s and quads start to come in, if we could get an idea of the height required we could incorporate this in the gate."


My thoughts are that it should be 1300mm high x 1200mm wide to easily permit a recumbent trike with panniers through, narrowing to 900mm at 900mm high (shoulder height) and then curving in to the centre at 1300mm high.
Are my figures correct?

There's a gap at one side for bikes but he might want to incorporate the bike gap in the new gate. If so what sizes and shape would people say?

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mjr
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby mjr » 27 Sep 2019, 6:38pm

There's a cycle design vehicle defined somewhere. Probably IAN 195/16 of the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges.

However, there is no gate which will allow all cycles through and block all motorcycles. Some sort of monitoring or reaction, even automatic, is desirable.

If it's a bridleway or other highway, I think blocking access by disabled cyclists would be a legal issue.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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ambodach
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby ambodach » 28 Sep 2019, 12:39pm

My Ice Adventure could get through 32 inches which I think is 82cm. The height you mention would be ok as my flagpole is easily removed.

climo
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby climo » 28 Sep 2019, 1:12pm

ambodach wrote:My Ice Adventure could get through 32 inches which I think is 82cm. The height you mention would be ok as my flagpole is easily removed.

I've added 35+cm for pannier width which is far too much unless you misjudge it. :( Think we just have to ignore flagpoles.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby Tigerbiten » 28 Sep 2019, 1:25pm

Most trikes will fit through the same width gap as wheelchairs.
So slightly bigger than a wheelchair legal gap will be fine.
I think that's around 900 mm/36" wide at around 700 mm/28" off the ground.
This would be more than enough unless you have a very non-standard trike.
What's also important is you need a straight run through the gap.
So you need at least a couple of meters either side clear to get this run.
4-5 meters straight each side would be better.

Panniers on a trike tend not to stick out wider than the wheels.
Just like panniers on a bike tend not to be wider than a bikes handlebars.
Also if you're building an A frame gap, it's going to be wider than above size (900mm/36") where the panniers are anyway.

Luck .......... :D

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mjr
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby mjr » 28 Sep 2019, 4:46pm

Tigerbiten wrote:Most trikes will fit through the same width gap as wheelchairs.
So slightly bigger than a wheelchair legal gap will be fine.
I think that's around 900 mm/36" wide at around 700 mm/28" off the ground.
This would be more than enough unless you have a very non-standard trike.

700mm at handlebar heigh wouldn't allow some bikes through because they wobble more at low speeds. Please please please use the current standard design vehicle. It's there for good reason.

What's also important is you need a straight run through the gap.
So you need at least a couple of meters either side clear to get this run.
4-5 meters straight each side would be better.

Amen. This is so often forgotten even with bollards. Bikes and trikes cannot turn on the spot. Even a simple post in a gap can become troublesome on a bend as you have to avoid collecting it with both the front wheels and rear panniers. Barriers are bigger trouble, equivalent to posts both sides.
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ambodach
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby ambodach » 28 Sep 2019, 6:55pm

I agree with the straight run in. Sustrans route 78 has a few nasty narrow right angle bends alongside the main road. Dangerous as I came off on one fortunately against a rockface rather than into the carriageway. Not hurt but legs got tangled in the bike and it took a while to get up again.A concerned motorist towing a large trailer stopped to check I was ok causing a traffic hazard on this busy road.

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gaz
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby gaz » 28 Sep 2019, 7:17pm

mjr wrote:There's a cycle design vehicle defined somewhere. Probably IAN 195/16 of the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges.

CDV1.png
IAN 195/16

CDV2.png
IAN 195/16

CDV3.png
IAN 195/16
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nigelnightmare
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby nigelnightmare » 1 Oct 2019, 1:29pm

Do you have any Pictures of "A" & "K" frame type barriers.

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Tigerbiten
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby Tigerbiten » 1 Oct 2019, 6:00pm

nigelnightmare wrote:Do you have any Pictures of "A" & "K" frame type barriers.

Look in "kbarriers.co.uk" for pictures.
They work reasonably fine for everything but bikes as they can be sized for wheelchairs, buggies, recuments, etc.
But they're just to narrow for bicycle handlebars to easily fit though.

Luck .......... :D

climo
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby climo » 1 Oct 2019, 10:52pm

Tigerbiten wrote:
nigelnightmare wrote:Do you have any Pictures of "A" & "K" frame type barriers.

Look in "kbarriers.co.uk" for pictures.
They work reasonably fine for everything but bikes as they can be sized for wheelchairs, buggies, recuments, etc.
But they're just to narrow for bicycle handlebars to easily fit though.

Luck .......... :D

Think the more expensive version adjust for width. For regular 2 wheeler handlebars I would guess at 80cm wide at 110cm height. This may be wide enough for motorbikes though

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pjclinch
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby pjclinch » 2 Oct 2019, 12:37pm

Trikes come in upright form as well, and you should assume that a rider can't necessarily dismount and may not be able to easily duck.

As mjr said, if any cycle can get through you can get a motorbike/scooter so this is a fool's errand. To keep out a Quad bike or 4x4 I'd do it on width alone. I'd personally err on the side of access so since a sociable tandem is probably wider than a Quad bike I'd not worry about quad bikes (but quad bikes happen a lot more than sociable tandems, of course), but I imagine a typical car (at least a modern one) will generally be kept out by a suitable width restriction that will let through just about any cycle through. And no need for frames/arches etc.

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mjr
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby mjr » 2 Oct 2019, 12:42pm

Yes, gates are a logical impossibility and will become barriers, probably unnecessarily punishing the most vulnerable users.

As I hinted before, monitoring, recording, alarms and punishment are better ways to deal with abuse. Can they put up a private number plate reader and/or CCTV on the entrance? Then either alert someone or send the owner of the vehicle a bill with photograph for the motor vehicle toll charge (£10/metre maybe?). If it has a connection from the public highway, probably the motorbikes have number plates to avoid attracting police attention very easily, so should be readable.
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mattsccm
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby mattsccm » 3 Oct 2019, 7:27am

Blocking quads and car type vehicles is fairly but illegal m/c s are not. They are narrower than trikes their bars are higher and then you have the fact that the riders are physically able usually young and less likely to care about damage etc. Number plates won't be fitted and the Police won't chase either in case there is an injury.
Physical intervention by a group of people with no concern for conseqences might get the word around that there are better place to go but I dout any people will go this far.
Much traffic calming can help but at the cost of speed for legitimate users.

nigelnightmare
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Re: Bike route gate size

Postby nigelnightmare » 5 Oct 2019, 1:29am

mattsccm wrote:Blocking quads and car type vehicles is fairly but illegal m/c s are not. They are narrower than trikes their bars are higher and then you have the fact that the riders are physically able usually young and less likely to care about damage etc. Number plates won't be fitted and the Police won't chase either in case there is an injury.
Physical intervention by a group of people with no concern for conseqences might get the word around that there are better place to go but I dout any people will go this far.
Much traffic calming can help but at the cost of speed for legitimate users.


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