Poor service from manufacturer?!

DIscuss anything relating to non-standard cycles and their equipment.
RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 15 Jun 2020, 9:11pm

I've got a luggage rack which I recently ordered from a recumbent maker, the rack was designed by this recumbent maker for my particular recumbent. I tried to fit it and found it wasn't lining up as it should with the frame bosses. This rack was a small underseat rack for smaller size panniers and cost me the equivalent of UK£115, so not cheap. But it is sturdy.

When I contacted them about this, this was the reply I got ...

Do not worry, this misalignment is unfortunately inevitable if you combine 2 different handmade 3D welding parts.Please fix the upper bolt first (not tight but at least 4-5 threads)and pull the lowrider forward to fix the lower bolts.The upper tube will create its unique wave to fit perfectly to the very Spirit frame.Tighten all bolts afterwards.


I wasn't very impressed by this but I thought okay I'll try again and give them the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm no Brunel but I have been servicing & putting bikes together for over 30 years. But there was no way this rack was going on unless brute force of not one but 2 people was involved with the risk of threads being stripped. And though I've honestly tried to get it to fit there was no way I was going the inflict further scratches on my paintwork.

This got me really, really peeved is it now too much to ask of a recumbent maker to make IN HOUSE a rack that fits properly. Seriously!! :x

I'm not going to mention any names but we're talking about a well known maker of quality recumbents. The only way I'll be able to get this to fit will be to make modifications with my Dremmel which I'm happy to do but I'm not paying them full price for something that doesn't fit properly and I've had to bodge.

What would you do?

rotavator
Posts: 454
Joined: 6 Jun 2016, 9:50pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby rotavator » 15 Jun 2020, 9:23pm

Reject it as it is not fit for purpose and get your money back.

n0ct0
Posts: 11
Joined: 27 Apr 2020, 2:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby n0ct0 » 15 Jun 2020, 9:29pm

+1. A seat bag from Radical Design will do the job without a rack.

I’ve had to persuade the rear rack into place on my Speedmachine, and the low rider that came with my used Scorpion FX just doesn’t fit. I removed it, modified it a bit, and refitted with different bolts and a few spacers.

Anyway, I found this link to someone with a similar problem, and no real solution. And a few pics of what it’s supposed to look like.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1669.0
Image Attachments
7624EBD7-A129-4055-96DE-08E6C364409A.jpeg
172BA373-4630-4D33-99F6-D5139A8BF633.jpeg

RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 15 Jun 2020, 9:32pm

The model of recumbent in question is no longer made but parts are available from the recumbent make in question. Also the rack was ordered through a bike shop who used to sell recumbents up until last Christmas and now only services bikes. They ordered the rack as a special favour, also they had to post me the rack (the shop). I don't want to involve the shop until some kind of agreement with the recumbent maker is reached if possible.

Also by disputing the charge it will be the go between i.e. the shop who loses out so I'm not prepared to do this. This AFAIC a manufacturing/manufacturer responsibility. The problem with rejecting it is I'll be without and I need a rack even a poorly fitting one.

n0ct0
Posts: 11
Joined: 27 Apr 2020, 2:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby n0ct0 » 15 Jun 2020, 9:41pm

Can you post pics of the misalignment?

The way I read it is that you fasten the bolts under the seat first and twist the rack forward so you can fit the bolts in the swingarm pivot.
Last edited by n0ct0 on 15 Jun 2020, 9:43pm, edited 1 time in total.

RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 15 Jun 2020, 9:42pm

n0ct0 wrote:+1. A seat bag from Radical Design will do the job without a rack.

I’ve had to persuade the rear rack into place on my Speedmachine, and the low rider that came with my used Scorpion FX just doesn’t fit. I removed it, modified it a bit, and refitted with different bolts and a few spacers.

Anyway, I found this link to someone with a similar problem, and no real solution. And a few pics of what it’s supposed to look like.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1669.0



Okay the recumbent manufacturer in question was indeed HPV and their reply to me ......
Do not worry, this misalignment is unfortunately inevitable if you combine 2 different handmade 3D welding parts


....sounds even shitier now that it looks like they've just off loaded a generic rack possibly for another model and not meant specifically for the Spirit. What a bunch of w@*kers sorry I meant liars!!

RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 15 Jun 2020, 10:00pm

This is the reply I will be sending to Alex at HPV and have attached photos below.

Hi Alexander,
Okay I have tried to fit the rack and unfortunately I can't. I have done what you instructed and there is simply no way of doing what you say easily. I tried putting the upper bold in 5 turns but this resulted in being able to only fit the pivot bolt on one side only. Here is a photo of the other side below. It's a very solid rack so it does not bend easily and requires a lot of force to get it to move even a mm.

Trying to get the other side to line up would require two people to force the rack forward under pressure. I've tried on my own and ended up scratching the frame because of the poor fit. The only way I could fit both pivot bolts was to loosen the upper bolt to 2/3 turns. At this point after fitting both pivot bolts there was so much pressure on the upper bolt pulling it one way that I could barely turn it and I could see that there was a possibility of the upper bolt threads being stripped. I could also clearly see that the upper bold slot is not angled correctly. I'm not prepared to force fit the rack and possibly damage the frame even more just to fit a poorly fitting rack.
I'm quite annoyed about this as I've paid £115 for a rack you admitted isn't a good fit, actually it's misaligned. You said ...  Do not worry, this misalignment is unfortunately inevitable if you combine 2 different handmade 3D welding parts.  
Well I'm sorry but this shouldn't be my problem and if you are unable to make luggage racks that fit then that is very worrying indeed. I'm a reasonably competent mechanic who has always maintained & built my own bikes and been doing so for the last 30 years. The only way forward I can see is to grind out the pivot bolt holes on the rack to allow more leeway and if I'm going to do this there is no way I'm paying full price for your rack.


The rack is very solid and barely budges no matter how much one pushes.

When both pivot bolts are fitted you can see top bolt is way offset...
Spirit Rack 01.jpg


Spirit Rack 02.jpg


Spirit Rack 03.jpg


And if I do as HPV suggest by fitting top bolt (5 turns) first then push (very hard) forward and try and squeeze in the pivot bolts...impossible
Spirit Rack 04.jpg


Spirit Rack 05.jpg

UpWrong
Posts: 942
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby UpWrong » 16 Jun 2020, 7:53am

Just ask the dealer to send it back and get another, and if HPV don't have another to get a refund. Surely it's no skin off the dealer's nose.

yostumpy
Posts: 714
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 6:56pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby yostumpy » 16 Jun 2020, 8:57am

UpWrong wrote:Just ask the dealer to send it back and get another, and if HPV don't have another to get a refund. Surely it's no skin off the dealer's nose.


I'm guessing it came from Bikefix, who don't hold stock anymore.

RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 16 Jun 2020, 1:03pm

yostumpy wrote:
UpWrong wrote:Just ask the dealer to send it back and get another, and if HPV don't have another to get a refund. Surely it's no skin off the dealer's nose.


I'm guessing it came from Bikefix, who don't hold stock anymore.


You are correct. What gets me is the fact i've paid top dollar for a rack I'm having to fudge to get it to fit properly :evil:

UpWrong
Posts: 942
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby UpWrong » 16 Jun 2020, 1:50pm

yostumpy wrote:
UpWrong wrote:Just ask the dealer to send it back and get another, and if HPV don't have another to get a refund. Surely it's no skin off the dealer's nose.


I'm guessing it came from Bikefix, who don't hold stock anymore.


But they are still an HPV deaier so should be able to exchange defective stock at no cost to themselves.

RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 16 Jun 2020, 2:00pm

UpWrong wrote:
yostumpy wrote:
UpWrong wrote:Just ask the dealer to send it back and get another, and if HPV don't have another to get a refund. Surely it's no skin off the dealer's nose.


I'm guessing it came from Bikefix, who don't hold stock anymore.


But they are still an HPV deaier so should be able to exchange defective stock at no cost to themselves.



Unfortunately if you look at their response...

Do not worry, this misalignment is unfortunately inevitable if you combine 2 different handmade 3D welding parts.


Does that suggest the replacement will be any better!!

pete75
Posts: 13060
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby pete75 » 16 Jun 2020, 10:36pm

RecumbentRide wrote:The model of recumbent in question is no longer made but parts are available from the recumbent make in question. Also the rack was ordered through a bike shop who used to sell recumbents up until last Christmas and now only services bikes. They ordered the rack as a special favour, also they had to post me the rack (the shop). I don't want to involve the shop until some kind of agreement with the recumbent maker is reached if possible.

Also by disputing the charge it will be the go between i.e. the shop who loses out so I'm not prepared to do this. This AFAIC a manufacturing/manufacturer responsibility. The problem with rejecting it is I'll be without and I need a rack even a poorly fitting one.


You paid your money to the retailer so your contract is with them not the manufacturer. It's the retailer's responsibility under UK consumer legislation to refund or replace for items not fit for purpose.

RecumbentRide
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Jul 2012, 9:11pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby RecumbentRide » 16 Jun 2020, 10:53pm

I've actually given up with HPV. Alex at HPV just sent me an email to do with my original HPV Spirit 20x16 where I'd enquired about getting a rack 2 years ago, see attachment, you'll need to click on it to read it. Where he warned me about the rack fitting. I didn't buy it on that occasion.

email.jpg


2 years later, I've got a newer model, the HPV Spirit 20x20 and when I enquired again I was told I'd need to use code LRHPSRT2 as the rack was different. I ordered and no mention of potential fitting issues was made. But the same issue arises again!!!

I'm not being pig headed, the rack simply does not fit. I've sent a response back to Alex and washed my hands of further involvement.

If I have to force you to provide proper customer service by sending continuous emails like this then I've now reached the point where I give up. If you are not willing to admit that your luggage rack does not fit properly but you are still happy to charge full price then You win! You win simply because I don't have the time for this anymore.


And I honestly don't

Tomorrow the Dremel comes out and I'll be making adjustments myself and hope to post photos of the finished job. Thanks for your feedback and contributions.

pete75
Posts: 13060
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Poor service from manufacturer?!

Postby pete75 » 17 Jun 2020, 8:18am

RecumbentRide wrote:I've actually given up with HPV. Alex at HPV just sent me an email to do with my original HPV Spirit 20x16 where I'd enquired about getting a rack 2 years ago, see attachment, you'll need to click on it to read it. Where he warned me about the rack fitting. I didn't buy it on that occasion.

email.jpg

2 years later, I've got a newer model, the HPV Spirit 20x20 and when I enquired again I was told I'd need to use code LRHPSRT2 as the rack was different. I ordered and no mention of potential fitting issues was made. But the same issue arises again!!!

I'm not being pig headed, the rack simply does not fit. I've sent a response back to Alex and washed my hands of further involvement.

If I have to force you to provide proper customer service by sending continuous emails like this then I've now reached the point where I give up. If you are not willing to admit that your luggage rack does not fit properly but you are still happy to charge full price then You win! You win simply because I don't have the time for this anymore.


And I honestly don't

Tomorrow the Dremel comes out and I'll be making adjustments myself and hope to post photos of the finished job. Thanks for your feedback and contributions.


I repeat , your contract is with the retailer and it's they who have supplied a defective item so should provide redress. In turn they can seek it from their supplier.