1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

DIscuss anything relating to non-standard cycles and their equipment.
crossy
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby crossy » 28 Dec 2020, 9:36am

I have a Sturmey Archer Dynamo hub on my ice trike that works well. I have Sinewav charger on it I can trickle charge a battery but I go too slow to charge my phone or Garmin.
Thorn Raven 3speed E16, ICE Adventure E48, Brompton 6 E14, Peer Gynt E18, Van Nic Amazon E22, Total E53, Annual E31

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squeaker
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby squeaker » 28 Dec 2020, 11:50am

UpWrong wrote:I'd go with the lower gearing, short cranks, mesh seat and drum brakes. I've learnt of the merits of each of these from experience.
Wot he said!
I've owned a Sprint 26 for 9 years (rigid, mesh seat, 155mm cranks, 17.5" bottom gear) and an 'S' (hardshell seat) before that: the Sprint handling was a definite improvement over the rear-suspended 'S', and the mesh seat much easier to configure for my lower back issues. (I've not tried any of the newer, rather expensive IMO, ICE hardshell seats.) I recall the 'S' (longer and lower) did get a couple of frame scrapes, but nothing with the Sprint. The latter came with 175mm cranks, and they did result in my heels hitting speed bumps / approach ramps from time to time (size 9.5" feet).
For laden touring (which I don't do) I'd like a lower bottom gear, say around 15" (which the ICE 10-spd + 22T short cranks will give you - on my Sprint anything larger than a 34T rear brings the chain tube in contact with the seat frame). Just remember that ICE's 22/32/44T crankset will probably have a fairly high Q factor (previous experience has shown that my knees prefer narrower, hence I'm limited to 24T granny).
Other things: clipless pedals - anything else is just not worth the risk, IMO. One rear view mirror is enough. Bar-end shifters are lovely (one of the several downsides to a Rohloff). Lights not flag, although I only bother with a rear flasher if overcast or shadows likely. Unsuspended rear end (with wider rear tyre and mesh seat for comfort) allows use of a standard rear rack - simple and stiff, with rear light mounting plate and accessible top bag mounting.
Finally, ICE are definitely excellent to deal with regarding spares / service parts.
"42"

Psamathe
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Psamathe » 28 Dec 2020, 12:12pm

Re: Lower Gearing:
There are loads of options but the two that seem appropriate are:

    ● SRAM S600 (44/32/22) with 11-36T cassette which gives 16" to 104" Gear Inches (1.3m to 8.3m development)
    ● Shimano Deore (48/36/26) with 11-36T cassette which gives 19" to 113" Gear Inches (1.5m to 9.1m development)
I'd was thinking Shimano Deore but recommendations seem mid-way between the two or the SRAM one?

On my 2-wheels DF my gearing is 24" to 123" Gear Inches (1.9m to 9.8m development) and I rarely (if ever) use the highest gear (but 700C but "development" makes allowances for wheel size).

Many thanks for all the input.
Ian

UpWrong
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby UpWrong » 28 Dec 2020, 1:55pm

The other factor is whether you want road or mtb crankset spacing. The Deore is MTB with integral spindle. The SRAM, Microshift and Suntour use square-taper I think so you can customise the Q-factor by changing the BB spindle. Check with ICE to be sure.

I'd go with the 152mm Suntour cranks but if you are sure you don't need short cranks, are happy with MTB crank spacing, and are reasonably strong or no steep hills around you then the Deore does give a good range.

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squeaker
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby squeaker » 28 Dec 2020, 2:34pm

UpWrong wrote:I'd go with the 152mm Suntour cranks but if you are sure you don't need short cranks, are happy with MTB crank spacing, and are reasonably strong or no steep hills around you then the Deore does give a good range.
Beat me to it, again :roll:
Hills + loaded touring = low gears essential, IMHO. Especially at the end of a long day, your options will be to keep pedaling or take a short rest (using the recumbent advantage of pulling to the side of the road and gentle reverse pedaling to keep the blood flowing) - there's no standing up and honking for a bit :wink:

(And the other thing I forgot was re: rear brake, very useful: stop trike, brake on, get off & then pick up trike's rear end - by the rack - to manoeurvre it into whatever space you have available; lower trike's rear and it will stay put - magic compared with locking the front brake levers).
"42"

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Tigerbiten
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Tigerbiten » 28 Dec 2020, 4:46pm

My understanding is ..........
The greater back-hip-thigh angle on a recumbent means you don't engage your glutes as much, so you have to rely more on your quads for power.
Compared to an upwrong this means your max sustained power is down and you fatigue quick.
And it only gets worse as you recline more.
Plus with your back against the seat you do tend to overheat under hard work at low speed.
The only way to counteract this overheating is to drop your power output a little.
Both these effects together tie into the myth that recumbents don't climb hills well.
They do but you do need to be fitter than on a DF bike to achieve it.
This also comes back to the fact that you may need to do +1,000 miles to build up your 'bent' legs.

Are you after speed or hill climbing ability ??
A big back wheel will be better at speed, while a small back wheel will be easier to gear down for the hills.
While around a 19" is fine around town, for use on a camping tour I'd gear it right down to sub 15".
My derailleur setup for a touring trike would be something along the lines of ....
Front:- 30-40-53 triple. Back:- 11-34 9 speed on a SA 3 speed hub built into a 20" back wheel.
That gives you 17 unique gears and a 12.5"-120" gear range.
The risk of hitting the rear derailleur on the ground is about the same as grounding the trikes frame.
You either have to be doing something silly and/or going true off road over very rough ground.
The main downside is you tend to chew up a lot more grass in it going across a field vs a bigger back wheel.
I'd may well have gone for something like that if I hadn't gone for a Rohloff and Schlumpf HSD setup.
It's a mega ££ setup but even more range than the above setup.

Luck ............. :D

Psamathe
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Psamathe » 28 Dec 2020, 5:05pm

Tigerbiten wrote:...
Are you after speed or hill climbing ability ??
A big back wheel will be better at speed, while a small back wheel will be easier to gear down for the hills.
While around a 19" is fine around town, for use on a camping tour I'd gear it right down to sub 15".
My derailleur setup for a touring trike would be something along the lines of ....
Front:- 30-40-53 triple. Back:- 11-34 9 speed on a SA 3 speed hub built into a 20" back wheel.
That gives you 17 unique gears and a 12.5"-120" gear range.
The risk of hitting the rear derailleur on the ground is about the same as grounding the trikes frame.
You either have to be doing something silly and/or going true off road over very rough ground.
The main downside is you tend to chew up a lot more grass in it going across a field vs a bigger back wheel.
I'd may well have gone for something like that if I hadn't gone for a Rohloff and Schlumpf HSD setup.
It's a mega ££ setup but even more range than the above setup.
....

Not concerned about speed.
Past touring on my 2-wheel DF I try and minimise hills (because my gearing is not "ideal" and I'm not used to hills and don't like them ...)
My (lack of experience) reason for going rear 26" is with the derailleur (ground clearance and risk of damage).

I'm keep to initially go with a standard ICE configuration and accept I may easily make changes later which would increase the overall cost.

Rolloff I've thought about but unless people say "the only way to go" and "more than justifies the cost" it's not something I'd include based on my lack of experience. ICE do offer an Alfine 8 configuration (with a triple at the front). I've no experience of hub gearing but Google and experience reviews and I'm unsure about reliability (which is a crucial aspect for going touring). But the Alfine 8 config does not add too much cost so all a "reliability" assumption.

I'm not operating a budget but money is an issue but I need something I can go off on tour with.

This is all really helpful; thanks everybody and certainly looking like a different configuration to my initial thoughts. Many thanks

Ian
Last edited by Psamathe on 28 Dec 2020, 5:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Psamathe » 28 Dec 2020, 5:07pm

I had selected only rear suspension as I felt ridged might just get "nasty" with long days and poor roads and front suspension adds cost plus limits brake choice, adds weight and I guessed maybe not crucial. I note nobody has recommended reconsidering my no front suspension configuration.

Ian

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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby UpWrong » 28 Dec 2020, 6:33pm

I've quickly selected my preferred configuration: #300428. Total £4141 with accessories. YMMV

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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby UpWrong » 28 Dec 2020, 6:42pm

BTW, I have an ICE chain ring guard which I bought used. but haven't found a use for - it doesn't fit my AZUB. It has a chain bite in it but still functional. It has the two bolts though one washer is missing. Happy to let it go for £20 plus postage. Can take photos if interested.

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pjclinch
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby pjclinch » 28 Dec 2020, 7:33pm

You've not specified exactly what your reasons to move from an upwrong are... If it's balance related then a trike is certainly a clear plus, but having helped someone who could no longer ride an upwrong get going on a 'bent bike last year, is a bike a possibility?

If it is balance then no, but if it's about riding position then worth looking at bikes too. The UK 'bent market is heavily trike-oriented but not for any obvious reasons beyond lots of folk associate 'bents with trikes, so it's a bit of a feedback loop.

Bikes do have some advantages (lighter, a bit cheaper, more train-friendly and shed-friendly, easier to manhandle, you're already used to the steering, components easier to come by), so let us know if it must be a trike, or if that was a default thought and a 'bent two-wheeler is an option.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

Psamathe
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Psamathe » 28 Dec 2020, 7:35pm

UpWrong wrote:BTW, I have an ICE chain ring guard which I bought used. but haven't found a use for - it doesn't fit my AZUB. It has a chain bite in it but still functional. It has the two bolts though one washer is missing. Happy to let it go for £20 plus postage. Can take photos if interested.

Many thanks but still deciding and then ordering and they are apparently on long'ish lead times at the moment (hence my wanting to decide/move now so it arrives in time for better riding weather).

Your configuration in interesting. Many similarities to what mine has migrated to after the comments here except I still have this thing in my head about the hardshell seat and it's psychological and nothing to do with riding and it's stupid but it is. I'm also wavering about brakes. I like my 2-wheel DF mechanical disks but recognise that disks are fragile (easily bent - from experience). It's probably more of a "what you know". I get on well with Marathon Plus on my 2-wheels - but you never know if you've ridden over one thorn or 100 thorns and had one puncture.

I had included the "On-The-Road" pack in my costings though still need to clarify exactly what it contains - so I've been self-quoting worst case pricing.

Ian
Last edited by Psamathe on 28 Dec 2020, 8:35pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Psamathe » 28 Dec 2020, 7:49pm

pjclinch wrote:You've not specified exactly what your reasons to move from an upwrong are... If it's balance related then a trike is certainly a clear plus, but having helped someone who could no longer ride an upwrong get going on a 'bent bike last year, is a bike a possibility?

If it is balance then no, .....

It's balance. From recommendations (from other forum members here) I'm now under one of the best consultants who is optimistic about long term prognosis but having been mostly totally inactive for nearly a year I'm not prepared to wait and see so I want to make sure I can be riding again however successful (or otherwise) things are. And if I long term recover great and I'll probably use trike sometimes and bike other times. But to get confidence heading off for a several month tour the trike safeguards against bad spells whilst away.

But also, I'm not good on hills and dislike them so I can see benefits to recumbent anyway. Also, my touring on bike is limited to 3-4 hrs a day (max. 60 miles, normally 40 miles) 'cos I just get too uncomfortable. Summer 2019 in the heatwave I started getting saddle sores (but acted quickly so managed to continue). I'm thinking recumbent trike gets round a lot of those issues.

It's just a lot of money!! making buying blind harder (but others have had far worse from Covid).

Ian

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Tigerbiten
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby Tigerbiten » 28 Dec 2020, 8:55pm

My first bent trike had the ICE standard 15"-100".
This was soon changed to 12.5"-100" by swapping the inner ring from 26t to 22t.
After my first long tour, 17 weeks/4k mile, I decided this wasn't wide enough.
I wanted to drop the first to around 10" to make steep hills easier when fully loaded.
And I'd got bored of spinning out the 100" top at around 30 mph.
So I looked into easy ways of opening the range up.
The aim was 10"-130" which I got with the Rohloff/Schlumpf HSD combo.
But I've ended up after a couple more mods with 9.4"-178" gear range.
Most hills are now easy to climb and I don't need to freewheel until I get near 50 mph.

I like the Rohloff on my Sprint.
But it does need to be run with a triple or better to give you the needed gear range.
A 30/39/50 triple works well with it and extends the range by 4 gears.
Depending on exactly the wheel size and sprocket that gives you something like 12"-105" or 13.5"-120".
It's main advantage on a trike is it's ability to change gear while stationary, you'll never be stuck in the wrong gear at a junction.
It's main disadvantage is you have to stop pedalling when you change gear, so you loose a lot of momentum changing gear uphill.

As for front suspension.
I run mine with the hard elastomers, so they are slightly stiffer than recommended for my weight.
They don't actually remove that much road buzz, fattish tyres at the correct pressure remove more.
What they do is they reduce the amount of bump steer you suffer if you hit a pothole/lump with one front tyre while traveling at speed.
So good if there's a lot of sleeping policemen/sunken manholes on silly high speed descents.
I like them for that but not really critical.

Unless your aiming to go true off road then the derailleur hitting the ground is really a non issue.
By the time it get low enough to be in danger then it close enough the the tyre that it's easy to guess if it will hit a rock or not and steer so it won't.

Luck ........... :D

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pjclinch
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Re: 1st Recumbent Trike Questions & Configuration For Any Thoughts

Postby pjclinch » 28 Dec 2020, 10:13pm

Psamathe wrote:But also, I'm not good on hills and dislike them so I can see benefits to recumbent anyway. Also, my touring on bike is limited to 3-4 hrs a day (max. 60 miles, normally 40 miles) 'cos I just get too uncomfortable. Summer 2019 in the heatwave I started getting saddle sores (but acted quickly so managed to continue). I'm thinking recumbent trike gets round a lot of those issues.


Yup. On my old drop-bar tourer I would max out at 60 miles with a crick in my neck and very uncomfortable wrists/arms, no matter what I did with the setup. on the 'bent I can go as on as my legs will keep turning with no comfort issues.

Psamathe wrote:It's just a lot of money!! making buying blind harder (but others have had far worse from Covid).


It is, but I'd lay pretty long odds you'll not regret it. Plenty of committed trikists who don't need a trike's stability, but just love them, and if it gets you going places under your own steam (which it will), what's not to love? There's a common worry buying a high-end cycle that you need a sort of "soul mate" perfect-for-you particular thing, but I think it's more the case that there are actually lots of different right-enough answers.

Hope you get happily underway again...

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...