"Fast" bike options

DIscuss anything relating to non-standard cycles and their equipment.
nobrakes
Posts: 77
Joined: 9 Jan 2020, 10:17am

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by nobrakes »

If I was choosing a fast bike now I would definitely take a good look at the Schlitter Freestyle. It looks like a great all rounder. Weight balance looks good.

Steamer’s comments on that thread were that the p-38 isn’t really any faster up hills than his other bikes and slower on the flats and descents. Small front wheel suffers more at audax speeds.
belgiangoth
Posts: 1657
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by belgiangoth »

Most of the faster bikes are setup for hamster bars (e.g. CHR). Will be interesting to see what you find that takes USS, if that is your aim.
I guess a coversion to Superman bars should be reasonably straightforward.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
yostumpy
Posts: 994
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 6:56pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by yostumpy »

UpWrong wrote: 23 May 2021, 6:22am
nobrakes wrote: 22 May 2021, 6:23pm I kicked off a big thread on BROL about fast recumbents. You might find it interesting.

http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... p?t=155695

I have one of the fastest recumbents available but the truth is that on real world hilly roads it is still slower than a road bike, despite 5 years riding recumbents hard and training on them, and you get clattered relentlessly on less than smooth road surfaces.

For audax etc yes, I think a fast recumbent is perfect, but I realised that when I want to actually race bikes I prefer being on my road bike. It’s an interesting thread, lots of knowledgeable folks chipping in.
Interesting thread thanks. I just want to keep up with my mate on his Roberts Audax really, or at least reduce the time he has to wait for me to catch up. If you are trying to match an upright then good climbing is necessary whereas scarily fast descents aren't. That's perhaps where ridng a P-38 might help, minimising differences on ascents.It'a no fun getting beaten up by the roads either. Running decent width tyres helps when you don't have suspension. On my RANS I use a 42mm folding Pasela rear tyre, whereas on the Paseo I have the 32mm version.The modern P-38 willl accomodate 40mm tyres and it has the suspended seat of course.
I have read quite a few times now, that a 'bent is better suited to riding with a tandem, as they have similar dynamics. Just persuade your mates to buy tandems. Simples., Like wise if doing an Audax, then buddy up with the tandems. Thing is, most of us bang on about being fast on this, and fast on that, but in reality, very very few of us , I'd say, were athletes, and most , I'd say, were probably over 50 , thinking we are 30. So speed is all relative, to our age, physique, weight,time, money, storage facilities, family commitments, health blah! blah! . So yes, try and go faster, with a better bike, but don't get hung up on it. Its crazy , I've been lusting after velomobiles costing 3-4 5k, but I would Never have even considered buying a carbon up right race bike for 2k, strange innit.
belgiangoth
Posts: 1657
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 4:10pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by belgiangoth »

If you get regular use fro your velomobile it's money well spent. You probably intuitively realise that the race bike would get rare usage and therefore be an excessive luxury.

You're right about "fast" ofc. And nobrake's fast bike may not be upwrong's, for a variety of reasons.
If I had a baby elephant, I would put it on a recumbent trike so that it would become invisible.
yostumpy
Posts: 994
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 6:56pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by yostumpy »

I also think think that some folks, (me included , a year ago) think that buying a recumbent will make you faster. I think the answer in most cases, is it won't, but you will able to goo as 'fast as you were on your upright', 'on average!!!' but for longer, in more comfort, and not feel broken after 100km.. my avg speed on my Streetmachine,is probably 3-4kmh faster than my tourer, but then I ride it differently. eg, downhiills, on my DF tourer I coast down hills, I actually coast a lot, its free!,but on the 'bent I accelerate, and keep pedalling, upping my avg speed, considerably. Now if I coasted as much on the 'bent as my tourer, then there might not be much in it. I mean come on, own up, who pedals 'down a hill' on an upright?
nobrakes
Posts: 77
Joined: 9 Jan 2020, 10:17am

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by nobrakes »

belgiangoth wrote: 23 May 2021, 1:25pm And nobrake's fast bike may not be upwrong's, for a variety of reasons.
I’m starting to think it’s not mine either. I went out today and did a 55 mile ride on the Tarmac. I do consider myself an ‘athlete’ in that I train hard, and tend to be one of the faster riders around in my age group (46). Plenty faster of course but I do the best with what I have.

Today I was 2 minutes slower than my best time on the M5, but that was set just after I’d peaked in fitness for the Tour o the Borders. Brutal headwind for half the ride today as well.

I just wanted to relay my experience because I have spent an awful lot of money trying to be faster than I was on my road bike, and after several years I’ve realised that it isn’t going to happen. Even with a bike like the CHR.

This is only relevant for ‘racing’. For audax I think a recumbent is much more compelling.
UpWrong
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Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by UpWrong »

nobrakes wrote: 23 May 2021, 7:53am If I was choosing a fast bike now I would definitely take a good look at the Schlitter Freestyle. It looks like a great all rounder. Weight balance looks good.

Steamer’s comments on that thread were that the p-38 isn’t really any faster up hills than his other bikes and slower on the flats and descents. Small front wheel suffers more at audax speeds.
I'd say the Schlitter Freestyle gives the best bang for your buck if you can manage it. I recommended it to "Oxford guy" on YACF and he went ahead and got one but hasn't yet fed back on how it performs. I believe he was a neophyte, quite young and a club rider so would be interesting to hear what he made of it.

Yes, I noted Steamer's comments. I think he prefers a more open body than the P-38 provides. Other people think the P-38 is the bees knees for climbing. That's why it's so difficult to know in advance of trying one, and having a period of adaption - we are all individuals.
Blondie
Posts: 239
Joined: 23 May 2021, 5:11pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by Blondie »

I have a lightning P-38. I don’t race it but I do use it for audax.

Some observations.

Initially my FTP on the P-38 was 90 watts below that on my road bike. It took 8 months for my P-38 FTP to match road bike FTP. This was with a dedicated switch to ride the P-38 nearly every time I went for a ride.

I’m now faster uphill on the P-38 than road bike on some local hills in the 5-10 min range. My PBs are about 20 seconds apart, in favour to the P-38. These hills are in the 6-8% grade range.

My average speed and elapsed times on audaxes up to 400km are very comparable between my P-38 and road bike. I no longer does anything longer than 100km on my road bike.

I used to have a more reclined aerodynamic recumbent that was much heavier. Great in the flat, but like throwing an anchor out the back as soon as a slight uphill turned up. The P-38 is still more aero than a road bike. You’ll notice this if just freewheeling downhill with a mate. Tri bars on road bike would probably even it up. But on P-38 you can hold the position indefinitely 😏

It’s very stable in strong winds , and you won’t feel like you’ve been wrestling an alligator like you would on a road bike. Side winds and gusts just don’t seem to trouble it.

There is a F22 full fairing kit that is said to increase average speed by 6-10 mph in typical rolling terrain. It effectively turns it into a streamliner.

Being more upright I find I can roll through junctions just like a road bike. On my previous more reclined recumbent I couldn’t look into the road I was turning into without stopping putting a foot down , leaning forward to look, then going when clear.

In terms of length it’s the same length as my road bike. So happily fits into back of car and most bike spaces.

When looking at frameset sizing, consider a smaller frame with extended bottom bracket if you are fairly light for height and you have long legs.

Ask Tim to braze a light fitting on the boom derailleur post, so you have a mounting point there. Means your feet won’t get in way of any lights you mount.

The seat bag is good, but I wouldn’t bother with the handlebar bag. A top tube bag will mount behind stem and in front of seat, on frame.

It has twin bottle mounts under seat plus pump peg for full size zefal frame fit pump. It can fit mudguards plus 40mm on front. The rear I have 32mm plus mudguards but certainly 38mm fits without. It can take a normal rear rack.

Built for audax with a Dynamo and full length guards , robust wheels mine weighs between 12 - 12.5 kg. You can build them lighter, an Australian guy has his built at 9.5kg. So think of it as touring bike weight rather than light roadie bike.

All in all I find it a very practical bike and as much fun as road bike, not sucking on hills, though you obviously can’t stand up. So low gears if climbing double digits grades. Steepest I’ve been up is 20% and I’ve hill started on 17% when foot accident unclipped. It is an agile bike, think quick steering. So if you need to make quick changes round pot holes or other obstacles it very easy to manage. Some recumbents feel like supertankers when it comes to making changes in direction.

How fast will you go? Well the Australian guy averages 29 km/h over 200km with 2,200m of climbing. I’m a bit slower than that. So it’ll come down to your fitness. If you have a road bike expect similar averages once you’ve adjusted.

Any questions, do ask.
UpWrong
Posts: 2409
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by UpWrong »

Many thanks for detailing your experience. Lots of good points about the P-38's practicality there.
Blondie
Posts: 239
Joined: 23 May 2021, 5:11pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by Blondie »

UpWrong wrote: 23 May 2021, 10:09pm Many thanks for detailing your experience. Lots of good points about the P-38's practicality there.
If you are going to do anything other than race then you’ve got to consider the practical. The thing with the bhpc races is that it’s just a bit of fun on the machine you have. Yes you can buy some speed via a machine impractical for anything other than short road outings. But if it’s no use outside racing and your other uses is that what you really want?
UpWrong
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Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by UpWrong »

Indeed, the BHPC racing is just a bit of fun. I'm more concerned with keeping up with my mate on his road bike when out on day rides.

I think I'd run a P-38 with mudguards like you given the CroMo frame and mesh seat. I'm too lazy to clean after every ride. I'd be less concerned with an alu frame and hardshell seat. Another option might be Lightning Bikes Phantom. There is more adjustment on the seat angle and it's easier to reach the groud with it's different seat. Zach Kaplan recently showed a build of one and said there was a lot of weight to be saved by changing the steering mast and crankset. It doesn't have the triangulation and boom bracing of the P-38 however, and uses a 26" rear wheel rather than a 700c once. It would allow me to try out the same geometry for a smaller outlay but I suspect I might be disappointed.
Blondie
Posts: 239
Joined: 23 May 2021, 5:11pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by Blondie »

Getting feet down on p38 is straight forward. Sometimes when arriving home I’ll unclip both feet in final few feet of braking and go straight into standing up as I come to a stop.
UpWrong
Posts: 2409
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by UpWrong »

Blondie wrote: 24 May 2021, 5:40pm Getting feet down on p38 is straight forward. Sometimes when arriving home I’ll unclip both feet in final few feet of braking and go straight into standing up as I come to a stop.
Thanks. I'm very close to pulling the trigger, just have to decide what colour :lol:
Gee
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Mar 2021, 10:11pm

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by Gee »

I keep looking at the Pelso Brevet and thinking that looks a good bike. On offer as well!
UpWrong
Posts: 2409
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: "Fast" bike options

Post by UpWrong »

To my eyes it looks more extreme than a Freestyle or a Mystique, with more heel interference for those with shorter legs.
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