Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

peterh11
Posts: 250
Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:25pm

Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby peterh11 » 28 Mar 2020, 2:44pm

Plus one for cleats moved back. In my case to position the ball of my foot maybe 10-15mm in front of the pedal axle, certainly made a difference for me.

I would suggest caution with having feet angled in or out with SPD. That was a key ingredient in my fairly serious knee problem a few years ago. Some may be fine with it, but once I thought about it, my engineer's sensibility told me that this meant that the chain of levers represented by the foot and two parts of the leg were out of line. Indeed, after a lot of physio advice and exercises I can ride with feet straight on the pedals (mostly) without knee pain. This involved a lot of flexibility work for calves, hamstrings, quads, glutes. Also strengthening the stability muscles - as I've written before the single leg squats were a key here as they strengthen and flex many muscles at once.

PeterH

Gearoidmuar
Posts: 2223
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 7:35pm
Location: Cork, Ireland. Corcaigh, Éire má tá Gaeilge agat.

Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 28 Mar 2020, 7:24pm

My historical approach to this was to ride on flats for maybe 2 weeks and then to observe my natural angle adopted subconsciously. It was always left pointing slightly in and right slightly out. That's what suited me until i tore my medial meniscus. Since then the further forward foot position with axle under arch of foot, naturally taking the same but not untrammelled angle, is what works. It may well be that your natural angle is both straight.

Limpar
Posts: 1
Joined: 30 Mar 2020, 1:22pm
Location: Essex

Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Limpar » 30 Mar 2020, 1:59pm

Not sure if I am at thee right place but would anyone be able to tell me if I have some new cycling shoes Mavic
Do I need specific mavic cleats or can I just transfer my cleats over
The cleats I have seem to over hang the shoe
See picture
Any guidance would be aporeciated
Image Attachments
image.jpg

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 4992
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: Catalyst pedals, Flat pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby foxyrider » 30 Mar 2020, 2:49pm

Limpar wrote:Not sure if I am at thee right place but would anyone be able to tell me if I have some new cycling shoes Mavic
Do I need specific mavic cleats or can I just transfer my cleats over
The cleats I have seem to over hang the shoe
See picture
Any guidance would be aporeciated


The cleats you have are fine, its not uncommon to have a little overhang - especially if using Shimano 'pattern' cleats. :D
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

Gearoidmuar
Posts: 2223
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 7:35pm
Location: Cork, Ireland. Corcaigh, Éire má tá Gaeilge agat.

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 7 Jun 2020, 4:29pm

Knee still perfect.

ANTONISH
Posts: 1835
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby ANTONISH » 7 Jun 2020, 5:42pm

Gearoidmuar wrote:Knee still perfect.


Good for you - looks like you've solved your problem.

Cowsham
Posts: 519
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 8 Jun 2020, 12:27am

After my change back to flat mtb style pedals I my right knee is still good. I found my mtb plastic / nylon pedals very comfortable on my feet too as I like a soft soled shoe to walk on. I don't like the mtb ones with the nuts and bolts in, much rather have the ones with molded on studs.

Gearoidmuar
Posts: 2223
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 7:35pm
Location: Cork, Ireland. Corcaigh, Éire má tá Gaeilge agat.

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 8 Jun 2020, 7:16am

ANTONISH wrote:
Gearoidmuar wrote:Knee still perfect.


Good for you - looks like you've solved your problem.


..and the curious thing is this, that the non-injured knee was pretty twingey as well, but not as bad, and it's now perfect too.

I am seriously considering the possibility that the conventional foot position/cleats paradigm is actually bad for the knee, longterm. I seriously suspect it is.

Cowsham
Posts: 519
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 8 Jun 2020, 11:40am

Gearoidmuar wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:
Gearoidmuar wrote:Knee still perfect.


Good for you - looks like you've solved your problem.


..and the curious thing is this, that the non-injured knee was pretty twingey as well, but not as bad, and it's now perfect too.

I am seriously considering the possibility that the conventional foot position/cleats paradigm is actually bad for the knee, longterm. I seriously suspect it is.


I think the push pull forces on the knee is the problem.

Gearoidmuar
Posts: 2223
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 7:35pm
Location: Cork, Ireland. Corcaigh, Éire má tá Gaeilge agat.

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Gearoidmuar » 17 Jun 2020, 4:45pm

Cowsham wrote:
Gearoidmuar wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:
Good for you - looks like you've solved your problem.


..and the curious thing is this, that the non-injured knee was pretty twingey as well, but not as bad, and it's now perfect too.

I am seriously considering the possibility that the conventional foot position/cleats paradigm is actually bad for the knee, longterm. I seriously suspect it is.


I think the push pull forces on the knee is the problem.


If it is, then using flat pedals alone with conventional foot position didn't fully cure the problem, so I don't think that's the full answer.
If you try pedalling on a flat pedal with ball of foot and then midsole, it feels different. I think you get different pulls of the muscles around the knee which gives it a more stable action. You'd need sophisticated imaging etc., to actually work out what's happening.

Cowsham
Posts: 519
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 18 Jun 2020, 1:21am

Gearoidmuar wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Gearoidmuar wrote:
..and the curious thing is this, that the non-injured knee was pretty twingey as well, but not as bad, and it's now perfect too.

I am seriously considering the possibility that the conventional foot position/cleats paradigm is actually bad for the knee, longterm. I seriously suspect it is.


I think the push pull forces on the knee is the problem.


If it is, then using flat pedals alone with conventional foot position didn't fully cure the problem, so I don't think that's the full answer.
If you try pedalling on a flat pedal with ball of foot and then midsole, it feels different. I think you get different pulls of the muscles around the knee which gives it a more stable action. You'd need sophisticated imaging etc., to actually work out what's happening.


There's a sweet spot -- knee too bent at top of stroke gives pain front of knee as well. Maybe that's what's really happening when I wear cleats, too much tension at the front of the knee. Made sure the foot wasn't turning in or out during rotation all good there. Finding the right saddle height is crucial. Did 40 miles last night pushing hard on flat pedals with no problems.

djnotts
Posts: 1594
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby djnotts » 21 Jun 2020, 2:47pm

I have never used clipless, always various flats with half-clips to prevent sliding off when wet. I find I move my feet around quite a lot. One of the few parts of me that work as well as ever is my knees, despite years of playing football on tarmac as a teenager. And riding fixed in my youth and in my 50s/early 60s (lungs gave out, not the knees!). Have never seen the attraction nor benefit of being attached to the pedals.

Cowsham
Posts: 519
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 21 Jun 2020, 7:38pm

djnotts wrote:I have never used clipless, always various flats with half-clips to prevent sliding off when wet. I find I move my feet around quite a lot.


I do too ( move my feet around on the pedal ) but I use mtb pedals with little Castilations on to give a little more grip -- don't like the ones with the screws in -- conscious of getting a calf scratched.


quote="djnotts"] in my 50s/early 60s (lungs gave out, not the knees!) .[/quote]

I've found being a former asthmatic now approaching 60 my lungs are much better now than they were at 30! And I did power lifting from 11years old to about 35. I think a lifestyle change to being outside in the fresh air made a whole load of difference ( took a couple of years for my body to change too didn't happen overnight )

djnotts
Posts: 1594
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby djnotts » 21 Jun 2020, 7:51pm

COPD is inevitably progressive. Can be slowed but not reversed!

Cowsham
Posts: 519
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Alternative pedals, Foot Position, Knee Pain

Postby Cowsham » 21 Jun 2020, 11:53pm

djnotts wrote:COPD is inevitably progressive. Can be slowed but not reversed!


Hope your condition doesn't progress. Keep pedaling.