Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
thirdcrank
Posts: 28687
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Feb 2010, 10:49pm

drossall

I wasn't trying to reopen the HC thing - it's just an example of the power of £££. I've accepted time and again on here that I'm in a minority of one and there is a long thread elsewhere, but the point remains that the CTC mysteriously blinked. They could have said "We accept that we can get no further with an intransigent Secretary of State" or whatever, but an unsatisfactory outcome was trumpeted as a success. The result was that a wording on safety which contradicted the CTC's own well-researched position on safety was endorsed by the organisation.

I'll stand by my suspicion that this was influenced by the piper calling the tune. And FWIW I suggest that not compromising would have done a lot more for the CTC's credibility.

Karen Sutton
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:18pm
Location: Greater Manchester

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Karen Sutton » 1 Feb 2010, 11:22pm

From the Steer Davies Gleave site:

"An experienced team with expertise in consultation and an in-depth knowledge of modern cycling policy has been assembled from Steer Davies Gleave`s offices in Scotland and the rest of the UK."

Also "Bikeability is the UK’s cycling proficiency test for the 21st century, designed to give children the ability and confidence to ride their bikes on today's roads.

A key element to the success of Bikeability is ensuring that children in the UK have access to cycle training, to teach them the necessary skills required to cycle safely and effectively.

Our role
After the launch of Bikeability in 2005, Cycling England wanted to make sure that cycle training was available to as many children in the UK as possible.
Steer Davies Gleave was asked to support this goal by working with local authorities to obtain funding and resources.
The project was a huge success – with 51% of local authorities delivering Bikeability within just one year. Within 18 months, 40 school sports partnerships were also providing training on behalf of local authorities".

So they won the Cycling Trainer database contract over CTC. And they are getting contracts from Cycling England. What is next? To whom will the next government contracts go?

manybikes
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Joined: 9 Apr 2007, 10:21am

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby manybikes » 2 Feb 2010, 1:35pm

SimonL6, TC, Karen - we are in your debt for demolishing one of the main planks of argument for charity status and gaining contracts. How many "pro" councillors even know about these events?

Regulator
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Regulator » 2 Feb 2010, 2:08pm

manybikes wrote:SimonL6, TC, Karen - we are in your debt for demolishing one of the main planks of argument for charity status and gaining contracts. How many "pro" councillors even know about these events?


Well... CTC is still paying for the Cycle Trainers Helpline... :?

blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby blackbike » 3 Feb 2010, 1:27pm

I'm happy to remain a member of a club which exixts to serve its members.

Charities these days have a way of turning into state funded quangoes and if that happened to the CTC it would not be good for the members.

Can we be sure that CTC employees would put remember to promote the interests of members when the state dangles a big fat cheque in front of their noses which they know will mostly end up in their paypackets?

workhard

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby workhard » 3 Feb 2010, 3:41pm

In simple terms the Trust exists to serve all cyclists, and to further the cause of cycling, whether they are members of the CTC or not. In more detailed terms...

3. Objects of the Company
3.1 The objects of the Company are:

(a) The relief of poverty by providing legal advice, assistance and representation to members of the public in relation to cycling.
(b) To advance the education of the public in the rights, liberties and duties of all citizens and public servants by publications, lectures or other similar forms of communication or by commissioning research (and publishing the results of such research.
(c) To advance the education of the public in road safety and the safe use of bicycles including their maintenance.
(d) To advance the education of the public in non-polluting transport methods.
(e) To promote and encourage for the public benefit the development in the community of and the provision of safe routes, paths and facilities for cycling, walking and other forms of low energy transport
(f) To promote healthful recreation, the conservation and protection of the environment, and the conservation of energy resources by promoting cycling as a means of transport.
(g) To provide facilities for recreation or other leisure time occupation.
(h) To preserve and protect the health and safety of the public by encouraging and facilitating safe cycling.


To me that is the essence of the debate do I want to pay to be part of a national cycling club with local branches whose income is directed towards member benefits and obtaining advantage for its members, via campaigning, or do I fancy coming over all philanthropic and helping with the bigger picture esp. in relation to low energy and non polluting transport.

If I wanted to do the later I would DONATE to a charity. (Like I do in fact - just not the CTC) If the former were my priority I'd pay a membership SUBSCRIPTION to a Club.

irc
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Location: glasgow

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby irc » 3 Feb 2010, 3:54pm

"(b) To advance the education of the public in the rights, liberties and duties of all citizens and public servants by publications, lectures or other similar forms of communication or by commissioning research (and publishing the results of such research. "

A worthy cause perhaps but what has it to do with cycling?
No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?

workhard

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby workhard » 3 Feb 2010, 4:09pm

irc wrote:A worthy cause perhaps but what has it to do with cycling?


about as much as

(d) To advance the education of the public in non-polluting transport methods

(e) To promote and encourage for the public benefit the development in the community of and the provision of safe routes, paths and facilities for cycling, walking and other forms of low energy transport

o Where are my red socks and boots?
o Where is my horse?
o Can I bring my hybrid?
o My car is all electric does that count?

The Trust wants to be a pseudo-Sustrans perchance? EDIT: (or is that the NEXT merger?)

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Simon L6
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Simon L6 » 3 Feb 2010, 4:15pm

before we all decide - the proposed Memorandum of Association has yet to be published, and is undergoing revision - I suspect because it's hoped to address some of the objections voiced by members.

workhard

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby workhard » 3 Feb 2010, 7:55pm

Simon L6 wrote:before we all decide - the proposed Memorandum of Association has yet to be published, and is undergoing revision - I suspect because it's hoped to address some of the objections voiced by members.


and if adopted and a yes vote is obtained what is to stop the MoA from being amended again? Or kept so broad as to allow business as usual Trust wise to continue? CCs are very easy on this score as I know from my professional experience.

Regulator
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Regulator » 4 Feb 2010, 7:13am

workhard wrote:
Simon L6 wrote:before we all decide - the proposed Memorandum of Association has yet to be published, and is undergoing revision - I suspect because it's hoped to address some of the objections voiced by members.


and if adopted and a yes vote is obtained what is to stop the MoA from being amended again? Or kept so broad as to allow business as usual Trust wise to continue? CCs are very easy on this score as I know from my professional experience.



In my professional experience, the Charity Commission has become much tougher on new charities amending their Mem and Arts since the 2006 Act...


I should clarify this. The Commission seems to be taking a supportive approach to pre-2006 charities amending their governing documents to take advantage of the changes in the 2006 Act. However, it seems less keen on post-2006 charities amending their governing documents to change their scope in response to funding opportunities.

In part this reluctance seems to reflect a concern that if charities continuously amend their scope, it makes it difficult for donors and beneficiaries to know exactly what the charity is about, which is a concern I can understand. Some part of me also thinks that it reflects a concern to main diversity in the charitable sector - although the Government may like the idea of 'super charities' that deliver a whole range of services, some can see the dangers inherent in such an approach.

workhard

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby workhard » 4 Feb 2010, 9:17am

Regulator wrote:In my professional experience, the Charity Commission has become much tougher on new charities amending their Mem and Arts since the 2006 Act...


On new charities yes quite possibly, but doesn't the Trust pre date the 2006 Act so isn't a new charity, hasn't it already amended it's MaAoA at least once since it was set up?

Regulator
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Regulator » 4 Feb 2010, 10:40am

workhard wrote:
Regulator wrote:In my professional experience, the Charity Commission has become much tougher on new charities amending their Mem and Arts since the 2006 Act...


On new charities yes quite possibly, but doesn't the Trust pre date the 2006 Act so isn't a new charity, hasn't it already amended it's MaAoA at least once since it was set up?


I was thinking more of the Club if it transforms into a charity, absorbs the Trust as planned, and then decides it wants to amend its Mem & Arts to reflect a possible funding change...

I have a feeling that the temptation to keep changing any future charity's scope will be too much for some at CTC to resist :wink:

workhard

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby workhard » 4 Feb 2010, 1:16pm

Yes I see, that makes sense.

Regulator
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Regulator » 4 Feb 2010, 1:58pm

Shamelessley nicked from elsewhere, but a salutory tale of what happens when people want to push forward with 'modernisation'...

The Mountain Bothies Association is a different type of organisation from the CTC, but the same old story of

Complacency -> Executive with grandiose ideas -> Peasants revolt

is as timeless as Boy-meets-Girl.

newsarchive23 (first part) and

TAC 56: The bothy politic

may ring some bells, and perhaps give a ray of hope.