Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
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gaz
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby gaz » 8 Feb 2010, 10:03am

Simon L6 wrote:The CTC held the database and now they don't - it's gone 'to another contractor'. And that is really the nub of it. This work is here today, gone tomorrow stuff. Today CTC, tomorrow SDG. It's not about influence or prestige or standing or any fine stuff about history. It's about doing a job for a commercial client. I don't know why the contract went from CTC to SDG, but gone it has.


Does CTC lose money on its external contracts?

Look a little short of half way down the linked page. The CTC says that it has lost money on the database. It appears that money was lost because the funding dried up but CTC believed it was important to continue to maintain the database. It could have just stopped and not lost money.

Did it make the right decision for cycling?

Did it make the right decision for it's members?

Was there any conflict between the two?
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

Regulator
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Regulator » 8 Feb 2010, 10:16am

I'd treat any explanation on the web-site with due caution.

The explantion given there doesn't seem to match with what has been said to Councillors at different times over the last few years.

And as for the no 'match funding' - that's a crock.

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gaz
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby gaz » 8 Feb 2010, 11:02am

Regulator wrote:And as for the no 'match funding' - that's a crock.


Of gold, or some other less shiny material? :wink:
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gaz
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby gaz » 8 Feb 2010, 11:13am

It's worth noting that I'm in the undecided camp but I'm trying to research matters using such sources as I can find. IMO I've come across things in the official line that don't make sense to me and things in the no campaign that don't make sense to me.

As there are warnings that the good ship CTC is heading for an iceberg, I want to keep a watchful eye on the horizon. The problem with looking for an ice-berg is that two-thirds of it is hidden under the water and that seems to be the case with accounting transactions between CTC and CTC Trust.

There is a note in the CTC Trust accounts,
"Related party transactions
Advantage has been taken of the exemption under Financial Reporting Standard No. 8 not to disclose transactions with entities within the Cyclists' Touring Club group."

I presume this is why matters appear to be far from transparent and why I can't work out the real picture for myself.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

thirdcrank
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby thirdcrank » 8 Feb 2010, 4:25pm

gaz wrote:...As there are warnings that the good ship CTC is heading for an iceberg, I want to keep a watchful eye on the horizon. The problem with looking for an ice-berg is that two-thirds of it is hidden under the water ....


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7008300.stm

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gaz
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby gaz » 8 Feb 2010, 4:57pm

A cautionary tale for those standing on the iceberg, looking out to sea.....

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/anneblair/lyrics50.htm
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blackbike
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby blackbike » 9 Feb 2010, 12:48pm

With the forthcoming drastic cuts in public spending it is probably not a good time for the CTC leadership to attempt to jump on the public money gravy train by becoming a charity. That train isn't going anywhere soon.

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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Steady rider » 29 Mar 2010, 5:09pm

The CTC has been a cycling club for 100+ years, probably one of the world's oldest cycling clubs. Only if a change had massive support should it be seriously considered and certainly not if it creates serious division of opinions. There could be something to be said for keep it simple, a great cycling club for cyclists.

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meic
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby meic » 31 Mar 2010, 12:23pm

Quote
"We want to be a cycling club - not a full blown charitable cause."

If that is true, then the vote will defeat the motion and we can all relax.

Your recent posting seem to show a concern that this may not be the case.
I am a bit more relaxed that the vote will support your statement and if it isnt so, I am willing to accept I was wrong and carry on.
Unless a bunch of refugees set up a new better club more suited to my kind of lifestyle and then I will move to where I belong. :lol:

If the vote is NO then I guess I belong in the CTC still.
Yma o Hyd

thirdcrank
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Mar 2010, 5:57pm

The word 'charity' is so emotive. I'm quite happy to say that my CTC membership is for pretty much selfish reasons and to the extent that I'm keen to contribute to the promotion of cycling, my contributions have been mostly non-monetary: encouragement, campaigning, advice etc. IMO it's up to the govt., to put the £££ in and if they decide not to do so, fair enough - situation normal.

I really don't mind if people portray me as being miserly - I even tend to cultivate the bah humbug image. If I'm going to contribute to charity it will be DEC or similar. My son was in Thailand at the time of the Tsunami and he let me know by mobile that he was OK before I knew it had happened. On occasions like that I'm prepared to dig a bit deeper. The only cycling charity which really attracts my interest is the CDF and if ever I let anybody have any bits and pieces from my garage, I suggest a donation in that quarter. Apart from that, the bourgeois in me has family RSPB membership.

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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Mar 2013, 1:44pm

Did anybody ever hear anything more about Gift Aid?

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gaz
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby gaz » 24 Mar 2013, 3:24pm

What we were told about Gift Aid can still be found, here.

From which:

Gift aid
• The first step will be to value the benefits provided to the different categories of member and
establish, for each category, if the 25% / £25 donor benefit limits are broken. Based on these
calculations you should then decide if you want to restructure the membership subscriptions and
associated benefits. You will also need to take into consideration any VAT implications.
• You should then present your preferred interpretation to HMRC Charities for approval. This may
require flexibility and negotiation so it may take some time to agree. You should also agree what
pre-registration subscriptions gift aid can be recovered on.
• You will need to set up systems for obtaining and storing gift aid declarations from members. If you
ensure gift aid declarations can be backdated and cover donations to other group charities then gift
aid can also be claimed on the member’s donations to other group charities in the last 4 years


Of course I've no idea of what we weren't told. :wink:

However the documents also set out that the first step after charitable registration of the CTC (Reg No 1147607) would be for it to merge with (takeover) the CTC Charitable Trust (Reg No 1104324). Presumbably it is only when that step is completed that Gift Aid will be discussed with HMRC.

I have no idea of the timescale for either process, perhaps both will prove to be similar to that taken to set up the new website. :wink:


I'd guess the wheels are still turning with regard to merging the CTC and the Trust. The main CTC website's structure page is out of date,

Cyclists' Touring Club, is registered as a charity in Scotland no SC042541, the application for registration in England and Wales is awaiting a decision


However Gift Aid is already available on donations* to CTC (Reg No 1147607).

*There's a little link at the bottom to the Gift Aid form.
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Si
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Si » 24 Mar 2013, 3:48pm

Did anybody ever hear anything more about Gift Aid?

I heard that based on the timing of the vote, we shouldn't see the benefits of GA until next year. But I can't remember when the vote was so haven't worked out the timings for myself.

thirdcrank
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Mar 2013, 4:30pm

When I was reading the recent exchanges on the "benefits of membership" thread I had a writing-on-the-barn-wall moment.

I thought that the idea was that being pedalled - sorry peddled - during the charity conversion debate was that in due course, Gift Aid would result in a reduction in subs.

Steady rider
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Re: Are we looking forward to being a membership charity?

Postby Steady rider » 24 Mar 2013, 5:10pm

I think CTC should consider offering a membership covering insurance only, on a not for profit basis.

How much of our existing subs go towards covering insurance? add on processing costs.

This could result in more members.

Perhaps issue Cycle via the web to reduce costs to those willing to have an e version.