The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
thirdcrank
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby thirdcrank » 18 May 2011, 1:53pm

meic wrote:...Why do subscriptions have to go up when the Charity vote has been won and the club will have all the millions of extra money that were the original reason given for becoming a charity? ...


To be fair, it was never likely that the expected benefits of the change would be available within a couple of days of the enabling vote and I don't think anybody claimed they would be. Gordo's waterfall of public bunce has well and truly dried up but the other prize - Gift Aid on the charitable portion of subscriptions - should eventually still come through.

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meic
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby meic » 18 May 2011, 2:00pm

I agree the gift aid will not be instant in arriving, it should take a little while.
About the same length of time as the proposed subscription increase will take to come into effect, I would say.
Yma o Hyd

Grandad
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Grandad » 18 May 2011, 6:51pm

As part of the majority of members whose reason for joining was the insurance and legal aid I'll be moving to BC's Rider membership for £24.

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robgul
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby robgul » 19 May 2011, 3:31pm

Grandad wrote:As part of the majority of members whose reason for joining was the insurance and legal aid I'll be moving to BC's Rider membership for £24.


.... if you punt around there's usually a half-price first year for £12 offer from BC ....

Rob

sadjack
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby sadjack » 21 May 2011, 10:51pm

Simon L6 wrote:
Motion 7 - the comedy motion. Passed overwhelmingly. That's fine, chaps. You're welcome on our rides..... http://fnrttc.blogspot.com/


Why do you call it the comedy motion?

If I read it right there is a legitimate concern here. With the rising costs of full membership, what is to stop large parts of the club starting their own "club" and availing themselves of affiliate membership saving considerable sums? Havinng saved themselves such funds they are prevented from sitting on committees and leading rides. Best of the fun bits none of the hard bits.

I dont understand how we can set up a method like this to undermine full membership. If the costs involved actually encouraged full membership I could understand it but £12 as opposed to £39? Plus a £50 admin fee if shared between enough is not a great deal. You only need enough member groups to think this way and we will all be affiliates :D

Personally I would welcome and encourage anyone on a ride but to me there seems some inbalance here.

PS - No I am not the proposer of the motion 8)

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meic
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby meic » 22 May 2011, 11:45am

I would have agreed with that comment when we were a CLUB with members.
Now we are a CHARITY with donors and the aim of the charity is to promote cycling.
This is what the club just voted itself to be, if people dont wish to pay to help others go out cycling, they should just join a club and not donate to a charity!

It seems to me that everyone who voted against the Charity has a perfect moral right to opt out of the charity bit and just be in an affiliated club.
Those who voted for the Charity bit should put their money where their vote was!

Also you dont get the wonderful magazine if you only pay £12 as an affiliate.

If the CTC decides to reject affiliates that would be very odd and I would say in direct contradiction of their aims, letters to the Charity Commissioner please, after all HE now decides what is allowed NOT the members.
Then some other organisation will offer a package and CTC just got smaller.

This isnt the only way that single cyclists get squeezed as a money source, you could almost think that the only contribution that NO want from the membership is a financial one.
Our family are already on a similar rate to the affiliated members at £15 each and we do get a magazine to share. Family rates didnt get a rise at the AGM either. :wink:
Yma o Hyd

sadjack
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby sadjack » 22 May 2011, 12:51pm

Hi Meic

I agree with much of what you say. We should, whether we are a charity or not, encourage people to ride. But I also think that the affiliate membership should be a stepping stone to full membership rather than undermine full membership. Maybe people will not see the saving sufficient to jump ship from the CTC, time will tell.

Affiliates do get a magazine I think, but only one copy so it maybe a bit dog eared by the time you get it. Question is, are the things you loose as an affiliate worth the £27 you save?

Anyway I digress from the theme of this thread. Apologies.

Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 22 May 2011, 4:33pm

meic wrote:I would have agreed with that comment when we were a CLUB with members.
Now we are a CHARITY with donors and the aim of the charity is to promote cycling.
This is what the club just voted itself to be, if people dont wish to pay to help others go out cycling, they should just join a club and not donate to a charity!

It seems to me that everyone who voted against the Charity has a perfect moral right to opt out of the charity bit and just be in an affiliated club.
Those who voted for the Charity bit should put their money where their vote was!

Also you dont get the wonderful magazine if you only pay £12 as an affiliate.

If the CTC decides to reject affiliates that would be very odd and I would say in direct contradiction of their aims, letters to the Charity Commissioner please, after all HE now decides what is allowed NOT the members.
Then some other organisation will offer a package and CTC just got smaller.

This isnt the only way that single cyclists get squeezed as a money source, you could almost think that the only contribution that NO want from the membership is a financial one.
Our family are already on a similar rate to the affiliated members at £15 each and we do get a magazine to share. Family rates didnt get a rise at the AGM either. :wink:


But the Family Membership will go up. They don't vote on the rise to the other membership types at the AGM, just the full membership. The other rates go up pro rata. So you will see a rise from 1st October just like everyone else (except commuted memberships with time still to run- like mine) :D

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Simon L6
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Simon L6 » 5 Jun 2011, 8:52pm

meic wrote:I would have agreed with that comment when we were a CLUB with members.
Now we are a CHARITY with donors and the aim of the charity is to promote cycling.
This is what the club just voted itself to be, if people dont wish to pay to help others go out cycling, they should just join a club and not donate to a charity!
It seems to me that everyone who voted against the Charity has a perfect moral right to opt out of the charity bit and just be in an affiliated club.
Those who voted for the Charity bit should put their money where their vote was!

Also you dont get the wonderful magazine if you only pay £12 as an affiliate.

If the CTC decides to reject affiliates that would be very odd and I would say in direct contradiction of their aims, letters to the Charity Commissioner please, after all HE now decides what is allowed NOT the members.
Then some other organisation will offer a package and CTC just got smaller.

well, quite. I'm not sure how the CTC has helped people go out cycling, but you're right, I started a club which, as luck would have it, is the fastest growing CTC affiliate.

I can do without the mag, which is stuffed with ads for mail-order outfits who do nothing for cycling

And, yes, if the CTC decides that it can do without affiliates, then we'll go elsewhere.

Regulator
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Regulator » 11 Jun 2011, 8:53am

Still no response from Council about what they're going to do, given that the proxy votes at the AGM were invalid. One wonders why all Council members haven't been told about the problem...

JohnW
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby JohnW » 11 Jun 2011, 11:24am

Regulator wrote:Still no response from Council about what they're going to do, given that the proxy votes at the AGM were invalid. One wonders why all Council members haven't been told about the problem...


..............and some wondered why the Titanic hit the iceberg and why it sank. We know now, but it's too late ..................

drossall
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby drossall » 11 Jun 2011, 2:39pm

Regulator wrote:...given that the proxy votes at the AGM were invalid. One wonders why all Council members haven't been told about the problem...


:?: :?: :?:

JohnW
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby JohnW » 12 Jun 2011, 1:20am

To be honest, to me it's all descended into the realms of farce.

I can only interpret it all as some people who want their own way not knowing how to accept not having their own way. The only saving grace for me is that one of our regional councillors, whom I personally trust and respect, is in favour of charity-isation and, although it's against my judgement, I respect his judgement.

I do a voluntary duty for the club, and I will see how this all pans out, but I think it probable that I will cease and write the whole thing off. I will remain active at local level as long as the club survives as a club with local activities, but "this great family of ours" that my parents and their generation knew, and I grew up with, is no more and what a dreadful shame..........

Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 13 Jun 2011, 8:23am

John,

Those are my sentiments exactly. As far as I'm concerned we have to accept that the Cyclists' Touring Club as we knew it has gone.

I, like you, have a voluntary role in my local Member Group. I suspect that at the AGM in the autumn I will stand down. I will possibly continue to ride with the Group on occasion. However other things are more important in my life now; and due to the changes in CTC I no longer have the inclination to give so much of my time to it.

JT
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby JT » 13 Jun 2011, 10:47am

Regulator wrote:Still no response from Council about what they're going to do, given that the proxy votes at the AGM were invalid. One wonders why all Council members haven't been told about the problem...


Greg - Could you explain here or in a PM or email how the proxies were invalid? This is news to me.

Karen Sutton wrote:I, like you, have a voluntary role in my local Member Group. I suspect that at the AGM in the autumn I will stand down. I will possibly continue to ride with the Group on occasion. However other things are more important in my life now; and due to the changes in CTC I no longer have the inclination to give so much of my time to it.

And me. I only got my group going 18 months ago and apart from a lot of help with Ride Leading, I do most of the work involved in running the group. I'll probably give it until November 2012 then quit.