The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
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julk
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby julk » 1 May 2010, 5:00pm

Membership services responded very quickly by e-mail to my request for family membership numbers and followed that up with letters containing individual membership cards.

thirdcrank
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby thirdcrank » 1 May 2010, 5:12pm

FWIW, I'm pretty much with gaz over this. I think the use of the ERS was a wise move. Postal voting (and I know that technically we are talking about appointing proxies, but it's effectively the same thing) is always open to claims of abuse but the only one I'd be concerned about would be if any members were being 'encouraged' to show their completed forms to somebody with some sort of authority over them.

The arrangements were settled at fairly short notice using the CTC's existing systems and fair enough. The personal details on my membership card, though only a few months old, were illegible and I emailed membership services. I've already posted (headed something like "Credit where it's due") that I had a very prompt email with the info needed, followed up by a new card. (I see that while I've been waxing lyrical :oops: julk has posted on similar lines.) It's not the first time this has happened to one of my cards so it's hardly a conspiracy - the last time I needed the details, Roger Geffen included them in a reply to something else.

Let's just hope for a decisive vote one way or the other - we don't want to be turning to the nationalists to support a coalition. :oops: Sorry :oops: wrong vote :wink:

JohnW
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby JohnW » 1 May 2010, 9:42pm

gaz wrote:...................most active riders in a member group already know their individual membership numbers..............................


I'm with you gaz, but how much of all this is about them?

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Simon L6
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Simon L6 » 2 May 2010, 9:26am

it wasn't discussed. In fact the meeting closed at lunchtime, probably because most of the discussion now happens behind closed doors, and Council meetings are a rubber-stamping exercise.

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Yorkshireman
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Yorkshireman » 2 May 2010, 10:50am

Simon L6 wrote:it wasn't discussed. In fact the meeting closed at lunchtime, probably because most of the discussion now happens behind closed doors, and Council meetings are a rubber-stamping exercise.


Getting a bit of practise in ready for the Charity/Trust/Quango?
I (for one) am getting more than a bit p'd off with some of the 'campaigning' (from the 'Yes' cadre). I've tried to follow the various views etc concerning the proposed change and have come to the conclusion that (like my bikes) 'If It's Not Broke Don't Fix It', though a little judicious 'fine tuning' may be advisable at times, therefore Greg has my proxy vote to do with as he wishes. I rejoined CTC in 2003 after a lapse of many years (don't remember how the lapse came about - just 'happened' perhaps?) thinking that my small financial contribution may help CTC support cyclists and cycling in general. I don't ride or directly use any facilities provided by local groups/DAs (I prefer to ride on my own, at my own pace and where my fancy takes me). I have 3rd party insurance via household insurance. I enjoy the magazine (and this forum) but would continue my (cycling) life without them. I realize that as an individual member I don't have much say over the running/actions of the Club, but if the Club becomes a charidee I will (probably) have none. Life's short (and at my age getting shorter - quickly :wink: ) so ... :( .
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gaz
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby gaz » 2 May 2010, 11:24am

JohnW wrote:
gaz wrote:...................most active riders in a member group already know their individual membership numbers..............................


I'm with you gaz, but how much of all this is about them?


Good question. Here's some figures for West Kent DA in 2009.

Total number of members living in the area, 1593. Riding with the DA at least once in the year 302 (19%), five times or more 176 (11%), seventeen times or more 94 (6%). It's an active DA with over a dozen sections. The figures are slightly skewed as at least one of the sections does not pass the relevant records to the DA for all of it's rides.

As Yorkshireman has posted above there's no need to take part in DA activities to voice your opinion on the CTC's future. One member, one vote and all votes are equal.
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Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 14 May 2011, 11:40pm

Well, that's all folks. Nothing more from me. Today at the CTC AGM CTC members voted to change the Mems. and Arts. of the Club to allow The Cyclists' Touring Club to convert to a Charity and merge with the CTC Charitable Trust.

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meic
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby meic » 14 May 2011, 11:53pm

:cry: :( :cry:
Yma o Hyd

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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Regulator » 15 May 2011, 7:31am

Karen Sutton wrote:Well, that's all folks. Nothing more from me. Today at the CTC AGM CTC members voted to change the Mems. and Arts. of the Club to allow The Cyclists' Touring Club to convert to a Charity and merge with the CTC Charitable Trust.



Ah well, kiss goodbye to the Club. I'll give it 5 years tops before it's run into the ground - unless there is a change of management.

swansonj
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby swansonj » 15 May 2011, 9:00am

I assume the motion was carried with the benefit of proxy votes. The CTC Articles of Association say:

34.1.3 A proxy will only be valid if the document appointing the proxy (and any power of attorney or other authority (if any) under which it is signed) or a properly certified copy is deposited at the registered office of the company at least 48 hours before the starting time of the General Meeting or adjourned General Meeting at which the proxy proposes to vote.


As I recall, the proxy forms had to be sent, not to CTC registered offices, but to Electoral Reform Services, but the dealine for receipt by ERS was the same 48 hours before the start time of the meeting as specified in the Articles. This suggests to me that the proxy votes were not in fact deposited at the registered office as specified in the Articles - or can the "certified copy" be made electronically and instantly? Even then, I rather suspect that there's no way a proxy form, posted through ERS's letter box at 12.29, could be processed by them and a certified copy deposited with CTC before 12.30.

(I ask this through pedantic curiosity only - I think it would be misguided to seek to challenge the vote on procedural grounds even if such grounds exist)

Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 15 May 2011, 9:18am

swansonj,
The number of postal proxy votes which mandated the Chair to vote in favour of the motion was 5439. The number of discretionary votes cast by the Chair in favour of the motion was 4184. 48 members at the meeting voted in favour of the motion. Those added up to 88.3% of the total votes, theby giving a clear mandate to Council to carry this out.

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Si
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Si » 15 May 2011, 9:30am

(I ask this through pedantic curiosity only - I think it would be misguided to seek to challenge the vote on procedural grounds even if such grounds exist)



I have to agree. Although I was/am very much against becoming a charity and fear that it may be most unhealthy for the "club", I also believe that we have to follow the wishes of the membership. If the majority of the membership could not be bothered to either vote or to dig deep enough into the issues such that they understood them better (i.e. not just vote because they stood a chance of winning a prize), well, it's sad but it's democracy. We can hardly say that we are going to discount any vote that doesn't agree with ours because it obviously comes from someone without the mental abilities to be allowed to vote. In the end the majority of the the members will get the "club" that they deserve.

I know that very few of my MG will have voted, or if they did they will have just assumed that the powers-that-be knew what was best for the club and thus sent an open proxy to the chair. And I can see why - the club, for them, is not about high level politics, rather it is about meeting your friends on Sunday morning and having a enjoyable day's riding. Whether a club or charity, they don't think that it will impact on their day's riding. We can say that N.O. don't do enough for the MGs, but my "club" mates appear perfectly content with what it does do now. So why should they get embroiled with politics when they could be out riding?

On the other hand, if it can be categorically shown that either side has acted unfairly in the way that it generated its support then I would be in favour of dismissing this vote - but I fear that this will not be possible.

Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 15 May 2011, 9:43am

I agree with all that you say Si, especially about it being a pity that out of 67,000 members only approvimately 10,000 could be bothered to vote.

My concern about Member Groups is that they may be eventually cast out by CTC in the same way as YHA did with their Local Groups after YHA became the organisation iit is today. Their Groups are no longer allowed to use "YHA" in their title and have to affiliate to YHA instead of being a part of YHA. YHA used to be run by its members. That is no longer the case.

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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby admin » 15 May 2011, 4:54pm

I am personally extremely sad that the club I've been proud to be a member of for the last 28 years is no longer the Cyclists' Touring Club, but is now the Cyclists' Touring Charity. :cry:

I hope that the CTC will continue to be a club to its members, providing benefits and advice as it has done before. But I fear that the change in emphasis will mean fewer members (now donors) and a dilution of the club feel. Let's hope the CTC can prove me wrong!

Hopefully the areas of membership records, financial accounting, and the club's - sorry, charity's - website can now be sorted properly. At least those in charge no longer have to focus on the charitable conversion any more.

sore thumb
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby sore thumb » 15 May 2011, 6:08pm

Karen Sutton wrote:I agree with all that you say Si, especially about it being a pity that out of 67,000 members only approvimately 10,000 could be bothered to vote.

My concern about Member Groups is that they may be eventually cast out by CTC in the same way as YHA did with their Local Groups after YHA became the organisation iit is today. Their Groups are no longer allowed to use "YHA" in their title and have to affiliate to YHA instead of being a part of YHA. YHA used to be run by its members. That is no longer the case.





Well if only 10,000 out of 67,000 members voted then that means that 57,000 are probably only members of the CTC because of the insurance and have little interest in anything else to do with the club. I feel that this sums it up really in regards to the membership of CTC, most of the traditional 'member groups' of the CTC will probably fold in the future anyway because of their ageing population. The CTC will become a virtual cycling organisation without member groups.

If you consider only 10,000 members voted and still the no campaign still lost. The majority of the minority of members must have voted yes. As reading the above posts I can see that members are quite bitter that they lost. We will all just have to accept that the yes vote won and we all need to move on.