The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
cardiac
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby cardiac » 16 May 2011, 2:25pm

I for one will not be renewing my membership.

Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 16 May 2011, 6:08pm

sore thumb wrote:
Karen Sutton wrote:I agree with all that you say Si, especially about it being a pity that out of 67,000 members only approvimately 10,000 could be bothered to vote.

My concern about Member Groups is that they may be eventually cast out by CTC in the same way as YHA did with their Local Groups after YHA became the organisation iit is today. Their Groups are no longer allowed to use "YHA" in their title and have to affiliate to YHA instead of being a part of YHA. YHA used to be run by its members. That is no longer the case.





Well if only 10,000 out of 67,000 members voted then that means that 57,000 are probably only members of the CTC because of the insurance and have little interest in anything else to do with the club. I feel that this sums it up really in regards to the membership of CTC, most of the traditional 'member groups' of the CTC will probably fold in the future anyway because of their ageing population. The CTC will become a virtual cycling organisation without member groups.

If you consider only 10,000 members voted and still the no campaign still lost. The majority of the minority of members must have voted yes. As reading the above posts I can see that members are quite bitter that they lost. We will all just have to accept that the yes vote won and we all need to move on.


Sorry sore thumb, you are quite wrong with regard to most of the Member Groups folding in the future due to their ageing population. In our Group we have new members joining all the time. Granted, they are mostly middle aged; but surely that doesn't matter. These members have more free time as their children grow up, their mortgages are reducing or paid off so they have more cash to spend on their hobbies. Those who are retired ride with mid week groups as well as weekend rides. We have 3 rides every week and they all have a good attendance.

Also, since the CTC made changes to how Groups can be set up there have been more Groups starting. These are not just the traditional Sunday ride groups. They are started to enable new riders, or women, or other specific groups t get out on their bikes. The CTC has increased the grant payment scheme to enable new and existing Groups to access funding for their activities.

So the Member Groups are actually very valuable to The CTC and I predict they will be around for some considerable time That is unless the new Membership Charity does the same as the YHA did with its own local groups and disowns them, forcing them to either shut down or become affiliates.

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robgul
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby robgul » 16 May 2011, 9:28pm

I think the real message is in Karen's last paragraph ... that's what will probably happen, groups will be crushed :-(

Rob

PaulB
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby PaulB » 16 May 2011, 10:04pm

Interesting that there is no mention of the vote and change of status on the main web page. "Time to move on", yes I will but it won't be with CTC. I have one year left on my current membership and then I'll say goodbye to a "club" that I've been a member of since 1988.

PW
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby PW » 17 May 2011, 12:10pm

Likewise. I may have long enough on my 5 years to vote against the culprits when they come up for re-election, after that CTC won't see any more of my money.
If at first you don't succeed - cheat!!

PaulB
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby PaulB » 17 May 2011, 10:10pm

Well, they have finally put the result on the home page. However, saying that a majority of a very small minority gives them a mandate is stretching reality way beyond its limits.

thirdcrank
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby thirdcrank » 17 May 2011, 11:03pm

All over, of course, bar the shouting or rather the chuntering but it's interesting to see that even with no obvious campaigning (as compared with last year) how close the No votes came to the 25% needed to block the proposal again. If I've correctly added up the figures provided on the CTC website then only 16,587 votes were counted of which 25% = 4147 so the 4085 Noes were only 62 adrift. (Not quite as simple as that of course. If 32 in favour had been persuaded to vote the other way, that would have been enough, OTOH 62 extra Noes would have raised the total vote by that number so it would still have fallen sort by something like 16 votes. All academic, of course, or perhaps not very academic if somebody points out an error in my arithmetic. :oops:

Edwards
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Edwards » 18 May 2011, 8:21am

Tc thanks for the information. I think it does not matter what the exact numbers are provided they meet the required numbers.
A lot of people did not vote, that was their choice. It is not doing any body any good to keep pointing this out and only likley to cause more bad feeling.

I think it is time to either support to new organisation or quietly move on.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

thirdcrank
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby thirdcrank » 18 May 2011, 8:51am

Edwards wrote:Tc thanks for the information. I think it does not matter what the exact numbers are provided they meet the required numbers.
A lot of people did not vote, that was their choice. It is not doing any body any good to keep pointing this out and only likley to cause more bad feeling.

I think it is time to either support to new organisation or quietly move on.


A majority of one is a majority (unless you are somebody like Baron Two-jags, in which case it's an unprecedented landslide :lol: ) OTOH, I hope you are not suggesting that that the only acceptable comment is praise from the paid-up membership. The CTC remains - by its own claims - a substantial force in the world of cycling so its activities are of legitimate interest to all cyclists (and, indeed, all road users.)

I'm not a member of any political party, any religious organisation, gentlemen's club, trade union, secret society, terrorist group AKA freedom fighters or anything similar but (as you may have noticed) I have no inhibitions about commenting on their activities.

Edwards
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Edwards » 18 May 2011, 9:54am

thirdcrank wrote: OTOH, I hope you are not suggesting that that the only acceptable comment is praise from the paid-up membership. The CTC remains - by its own claims - a substantial force in the world of cycling so its activities are of legitimate interest to all cyclists (and, indeed, all road users.)


Far from it but trying to say we need to support the new organisation, including criticising it if there is justification.
But the deed is done and it is now time to move on.
Having had people from head office (thank you Kevin) use this forum I feel it would be helpful if that carried on.
As this section has shown there is no need for them to monitor the whole thing just one small part. If we could ask reasonable questions and concerns (membership renewal) in the open on here. It would not only give the forum a bit more feeling of being part but could even save time work and money as the recurring answers would be here.
I for one would criticize the CTC for now dropping its links with this forum.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

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Simon L6
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Simon L6 » 18 May 2011, 10:18am

I've looked at the AGM 'results' page and the following strikes me as significant

Motion 9 - was defeated by the Chair's discretionary votes. There will be no recording of votes cast at Council. This, given that one Director has resigned saying that he did not have confidence in the accounts, strikes me as a cover-up.

Motion 5 - 1800 members voted against raising the subs to £39. That strikes me as bad news. I cannot recall people voting against a rise in subs before.

Motion 7 - the comedy motion. Passed overwhelmingly. That's fine, chaps. You're welcome on our rides..... http://fnrttc.blogspot.com/

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meic
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby meic » 18 May 2011, 10:53am

It is interesting to see that now they have worked out how to use the proxy voting system properly that now the chair can decide the outcome of any vote by the power of his undirected proxy votes alone*.

Why do subscriptions have to go up when the Charity vote has been won and the club will have all the millions of extra money that were the original reason given for becoming a charity? :roll:

* Well worth the price of a GPS or Goretex jacket that the membership pay for anyway. :wink:
Yma o Hyd

Regulator
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Regulator » 18 May 2011, 11:51am

Simon L6 wrote:I've looked at the AGM 'results' page and the following strikes me as significant

Motion 9 - was defeated by the Chair's discretionary votes. There will be no recording of votes cast at Council. This, given that one Director has resigned saying that he did not have confidence in the accounts, strikes me as a cover-up.


Any suggestion from Council that it is trying to be transparent with the membership went out the window with the Chair's actions. It is clear that there are some members of Council who have no interest in accountability.

Karen Sutton
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Karen Sutton » 18 May 2011, 12:12pm

meic wrote:It is interesting to see that now they have worked out how to use the proxy voting system properly that now the chair can decide the outcome of any vote by the power of his undirected proxy votes alone*.

Why do subscriptions have to go up when the Charity vote has been won and the club will have all the millions of extra money that were the original reason given for becoming a charity? :roll:

* Well worth the price of a GPS or Goretex jacket that the membership pay for anyway. :wink:


I voted against raising subs purely because it is possible the subs would not need to go up if the Club had not been giving thousands of pounds each year to the Trust; particularly as we are told that the Trust does not run at a loss :?

I object to having the subs raised so the cash can be used for purposes I did not become a member to support. if I am going to donate to charity I prefer to select who I donate to. I won't be making any more donations to this particular cause.

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Guy951
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Re: The process, the CTC AGM, voting etc.

Postby Guy951 » 18 May 2011, 1:38pm

This...
Regulator wrote:
Simon L6 wrote:... There will be no recording of votes cast at Council. This, given that one Director has resigned saying that he did not have confidence in the accounts, strikes me as a cover-up.


Any suggestion from Council that it is trying to be transparent with the membership went out the window with the Chair's actions. It is clear that there are some members of Council who have no interest in accountability.

And this...
Karen Sutton wrote:
meic wrote:It is interesting to see that now they have worked out how to use the proxy voting system properly that now the chair can decide the outcome of any vote by the power of his undirected proxy votes alone*.

Why do subscriptions have to go up when the Charity vote has been won and the club will have all the millions of extra money that were the original reason given for becoming a charity? :roll:


I voted against raising subs purely because it is possible the subs would not need to go up if the Club had not been giving thousands of pounds each year to the Trust; particularly as we are told that the Trust does not run at a loss :?

I object to having the subs raised so the cash can be used for purposes I did not become a member to support. if I am going to donate to charity I prefer to select who I donate to. I won't be making any more donations to this particular cause.

are two of the bigger reasons why I recently became an ex-member.

I cannot bring myself to trust certain members of the Council* and I have no say in what my money is spent on and no full set of accounts to see even if I would approve what it is being spent on.

*What's in it for them that they are so keen to dismantle a CLUB which has functioned perfectly well for over 100 years?
What manner of creature's this, being but half a fish and half a monster