Campaigning as a charity

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
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gaz
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby gaz » 17 Jan 2011, 6:27pm

Karen Sutton wrote:I thought you didn't have to be a CTC member to post on this Forum?


You're quite right. You do not have to be a member of CTC to post on the forum.

Simon L6 wrote:(with the indulgence of the moderators, because I have allowed my CTC membership to lapse)


I'd inferred from other posts that your membership ran to the end of January, like mine. Have you lapsed yet?
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Yorkshireman
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby Yorkshireman » 17 Jan 2011, 7:01pm

Looks as if we may be finding out just how good the CTC (Cyclists' Touring Charity?) will be at campaigning (amongst other things).

[ CTC Charity Vote

The revote on last year's Motion 8 closed on 14 January. The motion was 'that the Cyclists' Touring Club should be registered as a charity and merge with CTC Charitable Trust to form a single, unified membership organisation with charitable status.' 12,502 votes (75.4% of the total) were cast in favour of Motion 8 and 4,085 votes (24.6%) against, so the Motion is carried. Votes were counted on 17 January in the presence of: Jeff Tollerman, who submitted the petition; ERS (the Electoral Reform Society); the Club's solicitors; and a representative of CTC Council.]

Copied from http://www.ctc.org.uk/

:roll:
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meic
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby meic » 17 Jan 2011, 7:37pm

Quite a noticeable swing, if that can be repeated for the changes to the constitution you could be right.
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby The Mechanic » 19 Jan 2011, 5:53pm

Under 27% of the membership voted. Hardly what you would call an overwhelming mandate. Unless you assume that the rest don't give a monkey's. This could be true because when I talked to the guys and girls on one of my local CTC rides, none had a clue that there was a vote going on. This was the original vote I might add, not this recent one. Time will tell!
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Simon L6
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby Simon L6 » 19 Jan 2011, 6:17pm

gaz wrote:I'd inferred from other posts that your membership ran to the end of January, like mine. Have you lapsed yet?

In so many ways, but in this particular respect I lapsed just before Christmas. As I said, I may have to start a CTC affiliate to get the FNRttCers 3rd party cover.

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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby JohnW » 26 Jan 2011, 12:23am

Well, there it is then, like it or not (and I don't), with a majority like that, we've got to run with it.

I have to say that I'm amazed, because of all the members that I know, certainly 90% of those who do have an opinion were against the motion.

With so few members interested enough to vote, I don't think that it will affect membership numbers.

Of course, the charity commissioners may not accept us.

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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby admin » 27 Jan 2011, 10:47am

All the CTC members I spoke to locally expressed complete confusion about what the vote was all about. Most said they wouldn't vote because they didn't understand the implications either way. Which is a pity as a lot of people have made a lot of effort to try to explain things in simple terms, on both sides of the argument.

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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby JohnW » 28 Jan 2011, 12:58am

admin wrote:All the CTC members I spoke to locally expressed complete confusion about what the vote was all about. Most said they wouldn't vote because they didn't understand the implications either way. Which is a pity as a lot of people have made a lot of effort to try to explain things in simple terms, on both sides of the argument.


Oh admin - you may be starting something here - something like opening cans of worms - but I can't say that I noticed any effort by the club to put forward the 'against' point of view. Any 'against' efforts were independant, and very obviously frowned upon by the heirarchy, whilst every effort - and even to the point of councillors attending and addressing section/DA AGMs - was made to put the 'for' argument.

I'm just a mere member - I ride my bike and try to do my RtR bit, and for what little my opinion is worth, I am very uneasy indeed about this move. However, it's done now, and as I said above, we must run with it.

But as for any claim that both points of view had equal airings - well - put simply - they didn't.

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meic
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby meic » 28 Jan 2011, 4:45pm

That is not quite correct.

Some councillors were against the change and did address the local DAs and were given access to their list of active members to communicate their views.

However only those councillors who supported the change were given access to the (much larger) CTC mailing list to post their views.
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby robgul » 28 Jan 2011, 6:57pm

meic wrote:That is not quite correct.

Some councillors were against the change and did address the local DAs and were given access to their list of active members to communicate their views.

However only those councillors who supported the change were given access to the (much larger) CTC mailing list to post their views.


I think you'll find that the Councillors "had a message sent for them" by HQ in most cases - I had some discussion with the local bloke and he floundered on questions about his messages and their origination ...

Rob

JohnW
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby JohnW » 28 Jan 2011, 9:07pm

Well, it's all over now, bar the .......er....er.....the Charity Commissioners asking questions.

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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby John Catt » 28 Jan 2011, 10:05pm

JohnW wrote:Well, it's all over now, bar the .......er....er.....the Charity Commissioners asking questions.


No it is not. The ballot changed nothing. The vote at the AGM was in favour of unifying the CTC as a charity. The ballot merely confirmed that motion with an increased majority in favour.

To make any change the M&AA have to be amended and this will require 75% of those voting to be in favour. Bearing in mind that the vote in favour in the ballot only just passed the 75% figure, I don't think anything can be taken for granted.

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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby JohnW » 29 Jan 2011, 11:37pm

John Catt wrote:
JohnW wrote:Well, it's all over now, bar the .......er....er.....the Charity Commissioners asking questions.


No it is not. The ballot changed nothing. The vote at the AGM was in favour of unifying the CTC as a charity. The ballot merely confirmed that motion with an increased majority in favour.

To make any change the M&AA have to be amended and this will require 75% of those voting to be in favour. Bearing in mind that the vote in favour in the ballot only just passed the 75% figure, I don't think anything can be taken for granted.


John - I'm not understanding you clearly. Are you saying that I'm out of order for merely bringing the question of the Charity Commissioners' possible attitude into the debate, and that I should forget it and get on with it, or are you saying that despite the result of the ballot, the matter isn't resolved, and 'those against' live to fight again?

I may be wrong in my perception, but my perception is that, whilst I am most decidedly of the 'against' persuasion, the ballot drives the decision and I'll now shut up and let those in authority get on with it. If the Charity Commissioners wish to go further in to the ballot, then they decide that themselves and make their own conclusions.

If anyone thinks I'm wrong, please tell me - no offence will be taken.

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gaz
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby gaz » 30 Jan 2011, 9:50am

John W, you're wrong. :wink:

At the 2010 AGM there were three motions regarding the proposal. Motion 8, passed at the AGM and has now been confirmed by the poll of the whole club.

This is the motion that determined that members wish Cyclists’ Touring Club to become a charity. The intention was to implement the conversion in two stages. Firstly steps would be taken to register the club as a charity. Following registration with the Charity Commission (see below) the CTC Charitable Trust would be merged back into the Club.

Had this motion not been passed then the whole charity conversion process would have been stopped in it's tracks and the remaining motions would not have been voted on.

That lead to Motion 9, also passed at the AGM. This motion authorised Council to take the steps necessary to register the Club as a charity with the Charity Commission for England and Wales, the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator and the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland and to merge the Club with CTC Charitable Trust to become a single, charitable organisation. This was an essentially administrative resolution that followed from motion 8 as the charity regulators required an explicit reference to registration and merger in each country to be passed by the AGM.

That left the matter of motion 10.

10 Proposed by B. Flood on behalf of the Council, seconded by A. Spurr. This AGM agrees that the revised Memorandum and Articles of Association as circulated with the Notice of the Annual General Meeting in the April/May issue of Cycle magazine be adopted as the new Articles of Association of the Club in
substitution for and to the exclusion of all existing Articles of Association.


The current Memorandum and Articles of Association of Cyclists’ Touring Club do not fully meet the requirements of a charity. Although motion 8 is passed the M&A need some revision to achieve charity registration. In addition the current M&A require amendment to fall in line with the 2006 Companies Act. The Council’s legal advisors have therefore been through the documents and identified the minimum changes needed to satisfy company and charity law while retaining all elements included by previous CTC AGMs.

This motion required a 75% majority of those voting to be passed. It did not receive the required majority. Hence whilst the members wish to convert to a Charity and Council have been instructed to register CTC as a charity it cannot be done with the current Mem & Arts.

The "Yes" camp need to propose motion 10 again (or something similar) at an AGM or EGM and obtain at least a 75% majority from those voting. Until that is done the CTC cannot become a charity.

Hence the debate goes on.
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JohnW
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Re: Campaigning as a charity

Postby JohnW » 30 Jan 2011, 11:11pm

Thanks gaz - I appreciate that, and now I know. From lightweight discussions with acquaintances, I believe that there were others who were no so clear either.

That was a good post.